New Tank Blues

[Desdemona]

I have a 15 Gal Aqueon column tank as seen here (this exact one):

http/www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11390248&lmdn=Fish#RatingsDetail

I bought it as a last minute thing when I needed to move the tank my betta was in (basic 5 gal glass). I had planned on getting a bigger tank for him but hadn't done so yet. The local stores didn't have much to offer so I went to that one because I liked the stand better and the stand was cheaper than the other tank with stand.

Anyways, I put betta and his one Cory cat in the tank. The next day I bought some decorations for it, decided to buy two buddies for the Cory and got three platys after reading they were good with Bettas. After setting up tank and adding fish I started to worry about their oxygen levels (a bit too late).

So, if I turn on the filter the betta is unhappy and just hides in the small space behind the filter. If I turn it off I am afraid the other fish will die. I can lower the output of the filter (what I did for the 5 gal) but I don't know if that will be enough water movement. I don't think the betta would like a bubbler either since the whole point is to break the water surface right?

To make things worse I found my original cory plus one of the newbies laying around sideways looking pretty ill this morning. So, guess one was sick and now they both will probably die (saw this right before leaving for work).

So, betta is my fav and I want to keep him happy. Am I just going to have to keep the filter off, or at low.. and buy only air breather fish? Is there a way to oxignaite (if that is a word) without pissing off the betta? I also have 3 decent sized life plants in there but dont' know how much oxygen they actually put back in.

 

[fishychick77]

how long has the betta hid for when you turned it on?

 

[onidrase]

are you sure it's the filter that's causing the betta to hide, or are the platies picking on it? I've never heard of platies being good tank mates for bettas. I've always considered having mollies, platies, or guppies with a betta fish to be a no-no.

 

[Desdemona]

I haven't seen the Plattys near the betta, they have only been in there since Mon. The betta is up against the glass behind the filter. He was in the large hide I bought him at first. He didn't hide until I turned on the filter and he came out after I turned it off. However today he hasn't moved regardless of the filter state from what I have seen. I read numerous, "platys are fine," posts online.

That being said, I think the betta is going back into his 5 gal tank. All of my Corys died and I think the filter is too weak for the tall tank. If I got a stronger one the betta would be even less happy. The platys seem fine at least. So, for now nothing new until I can get the Betta situated and I can get a larger filter. He was fine in the 5 gal and I was able move it since its currently empty. I had to move the dresser it was on.

 

[fish+peace]

have you put the water/filter from the original tank into the new one or is it all new kit - eg uncycled if the filter is off then beneficial bacteria would die off?

i would have your water tested and put the beta back if you can till u know whats happening

 

[Desdemona]

It is a new filter kit, but I put the entirety of my betta's tank into the new tank. I slowly filled the new tank thinking that maybe it would make it easier on them. Less new waters since he was going from 5 to 15 gal. So, the first night I only added two gallons of new water and let it sit the whole night. No filter since it didn't even reach the water. The second day I slowly raised it up to 15 but that was 1 gal roughly every 2 to 3 hours.

This weekend I am going to put him back in his 5 Gal using water from the 15 gal. Probably 4 gal from there and 1 gal new so it's like a water change. Though the water probably doesn't need a change since it's less than a week old and is 15 gal with only 4 small fish (the Betta is the biggest but he is still young).

I think the light is bothering him too. I turned off the light and the pump last night and this morning he was out swimming around. Though he wasn't as cheery as usual, he was at least swimming around. He has no signs of illness so I think it's just a bad tank/setup for him. The platys are all still looking good and happy. Even with the limited water movement. I plan on solidfying the betta's new spot (small apartment with to much stuff) on Sat morning and moving him then. I'll let the new tank cycle for a few weeks with the Platys before buying anymore fish. At least not ALL of my fish are miserable.

have you put the water/filter from the original tank into the new one or is it all new kit - eg uncycled if the filter is off then beneficial bacteria would die off?

i would have your water tested and put the beta back if you can till u know whats happening

Oh, I have a water test kit so will test all the elements I have today. I have a GH/KH kit coming from Amazon as well.

 

[mozcheez]

You should really test your water as soon as possible.

It's more likely that your fish died from ammonia/nitrite poisoning. Your tank wasn't cycled and the introduction of that number of fish created a high amount of ammonia. Good bacteria doesn't really stay in the water, it forms in the substrate and filters (and on decorations in some cases). So, just transferring the water (and a little bit of gravel) doesn't make a new tank immediately safe. If you try to keep the 15g going, I would recommend (at minimum) 25% water changes daily to keep ammonia and nitrite levels down until the tank can cycle.

Your betta could have been hiding because he was extremely stressed due to the water parameters. You didn't mention specifically above.... did you have a filter on the 5g tank you started him in? If so, and if the filter media hasn't been dried out, you should put that media in the 15 gallon tank's filter (stick it in anywhere as long as the filter can still operate).

You can read more about fish-in and fishless cycling at these links:
Fish-in: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=224306
Fishless: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861

On a side note, I had a betta in a 10 gallon tank with a huge filter (overkill actually) with 3 platies and they all did fine for years. He never seemed scared despite the noise and high water flow.

Good luck :\ Let us know what those water parameters are, especially ammonia and nitrite.

 

[Desdemona]

I just tested them, and I do have a good kit not the paper sticks. Anyways no No2 or No3 but the ammonia is at .5. Not insane, but obviously the water isn't cycled. I will check the old filter, I haven't completely cleaned out the old tank because I was thinking of using it for something else. I just wanted to move it's location. So I will move the filter over. It doesn't have the bio web thing, so I will buy a new one of those before using the little tank. It just has the charcol filter in it.

The pH was 7.8, so not bad and betta has been in slightly elevated pH for a while since the watre here is off the charts. I am going to start mixing it with RO water to help that. It would be in the 8s if I hadn't been putting pH down in it.

Oh, didn't add, but the Betta died when I was at work I am going to make sure both tanks are properly cycles before buying any more fish of course.

 

[mozcheez]

I'm so sorry to hear that your betta died I know you really enjoyed having him around. I was really upset the day mine died (the same one that shared the tank with platies). He had such an awesome personality.

Even a reading as low as .5ppm is really toxic and stressful for freshwater fish :\ Sometimes you can luck out and a new tank just "works" (albeit stressful on the fishies), but other times it ends up like this. I'm trying "fishless cycling" for the first time, but I'm really looking forward to the day I'll be able to add fish to that tank!

 

[Desdemona]

yea, I won't be adding any more fish for a while. He is sort of my 4th betta, but two were dumped on me in vases that were NOT good for fish. They were not even made for fish. Anyways, one was insanely picky, would only eat one brand of pet food. I got them both bigger tanks (though I didn't cycle those either, this was quite a few years ago). The picky eater didn't do well with the move (two different tanks of course, I wasn't that much of a noob) but the other one did. I moved later and the living betta found a new home. My first betta did pretty well, even though he got mad fin rott after being overfed by a fish babysitter. I don't know how he lived. The fin rott was so bad I had to double the med dosage and over salt his tank. It would not die with the recommended amonts but he survived the rott and the over medication. Needless to say I was more specific with my more recent fish sitter, but even she overfed the fish. *sigh*

 

[mozcheez]

While cycling is preferred, it's not imperative that you cycle a tank for only a betta since they surface to breathe air (and don't "breathe" through the water). That's how so many betta owners get away with vases or fish bowls only. You would just have to check water quality and perform frequent water changes.

Good luck

 

[CezzaXV]

I just tested them, and I do have a good kit not the paper sticks. Anyways no No2 or No3 but the ammonia is at .5. Not insane, but obviously the water isn't cycled. I will check the old filter, I haven't completely cleaned out the old tank because I was thinking of using it for something else. I just wanted to move it's location. So I will move the filter over. It doesn't have the bio web thing, so I will buy a new one of those before using the little tank. It just has the charcol filter in it.

Actually, 0.5ppm ammonia is pretty insane. Any amount of ammonia is toxic to fish. When we advise people on fish-in cycling, we say 0.25ppm is the absolute maximum you want to allow, and even that's too much. The fact there's also no nitrate in your water means there's nothing good going on in it.

The bacteria you had in your old filter will have likely died off in large numbers already if they've not had an ammonia source, but there may still be some left. It's important to keep as much of the original media as possible when transferring over. It'd be a good idea for you to do some reading on new tank syndrome, as this is a classic example.

As for what mozcheez said, while it is true that bettas breathe through the air rather than water, this doesn't make them magically immune to any poisons which may be around them.

 

[Desdemona]

I did give them a partial water change this morning and they will get another tomorrow when I "return" home (I work till 11pm tonight). I will check the levels again as well. I did a quick stick test this morning since I have some of the papers left and it still showed no No2/3 so nothing has kicked in yet.

The old bacteria did have an extra food source, but as old betta food. I went on vacation for two weeks and the babysitter trashed the tank with food. I had most of it cleaned out but the filter had a nice coating. I couldn't fit the filter as it was in with the new filter, so I dumped the charcoal out of the old and put the filter webbing in the new pump. I put it after the new filter though... so water goes through the new filter and then the old webbing before going back out. It made things a bit nasty looking for about an hour but it cleaned up pretty quick. If there is a better way let me know.

I will cycle my betta tank just to be on the safer side. At least with the big tank I'll have easy access to material if the bacteria in the rocks of the old tank have died. I bought a new ornament for it, so I want to use it, hehe.