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[zebedee2903]

Hi fish people,
Come to ask for advice.
I have an established 40g, danios, wcmms, a couple of black moors, ramshorns.
Last week I added 5 guppies to a new 10g, treated with api stress coat and quick start. 1 died after 4 days, another after 5, another today. Came from a reputable dealer, and from 3 different tanks. All were obviously introduced to the tank in the correct manner. Filter is pre established. Temp is 75.
Ph 7.5, nitrite 0, ammonia 0, nitrate 20ppm. Nothing else live in the tank apart from duckweed which appears healthy. I'm pretty baffled. And obviously a bit upset. Any suggestions?
Many thanks,
Simon

 

[Colin_T]

Pictures of the fish?

First Aid for guppies.
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until we identify the problem. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using salt or medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Add some salt, (see directions below).

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), sea salt or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

When you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

 

[zebedee2903]

Hi Colin,
Thanks for the advice.
So I perceive we are thinking some sort of infection in the media? I've had a quick read into aquarium salt (my aged brain obviously struggled, but grasped the basics), and have ordered. Have obviously done a 50% water change, but shall increase to daily 75%.
Question, should I dump the duckweed? Not sure if it may be contributing to the infection, and the intraweb indicates it may not survive the salting process.
Many thanks again,
Simon.

 

[Colin_T]

No there is not an infection in the media.

There is probably a health issue with the fish that you bought. Hence the need for pictures.

Water changes dilute the disease organisms and anything else in the water that might be causing this.

Salt helps kill a number of disease organisms.

Duckweed and other plants will not be contributing to this, and it should be fine with the low levels of salt (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) and might be fine with 3 or 4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres. Monitor it and if it dies, then scoop it out, but it should be fine at lower doses.

 

[zebedee2903]

No there is not an infection in the media.

There is probably a health issue with the fish that you bought. Hence the need for pictures.

Water changes dilute the disease organisms and anything else in the water that might be causing this.

Salt helps kill a number of disease organisms.

Duckweed and other plants will not be contributing to this, and it should be fine with the low levels of salt (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) and might be fine with 3 or 4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres. Monitor it and if it dies, then scoop it out, but it should be fine at lower doses.

Hi Colin,
Apologies, neglected to update you last night. Tank is salted, and I'm delighted to announce that the two remaining guppies are energetic and appear perfectly happy and healthy. I'm looking forward to restocking, which I assume will be ok after a couple of weeks?
Many many thanks for your assistance.
Simon.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Oh, if only salt killed duckweed so easily!

I've had duckweed survive and grow in a bucket I was soaking some items in a bleach solution. I loathe duckweed and it's a nightmare trying to get rid of it, I'm absolutely positive your duckweed will make it through the salting Even if it seems to die back, it only takes one tiny, dried out speck of it to be stuck somewhere, and it'll be back with a vengeance.

Happy to see the positive update! When you're ready to restock, I'd suggest quarantining any new fish you buy for two weeks to a month before adding them to your main tank, so you can check for any diseases and make sure they're healthy, before risking spreading any illnesses to your healthy stock. You don't need to have a permanent extra tank for quarantine purposes, you can use a plastic storage tote as a temporary tank for quarantine purposes, just add a heater that has a heater guard and a sponge filter, seeded from your current tank media. Fashion some sort of cover or keep the water level a good distance from the rim to prevent jumpers. Then it can be set up and put away as needed.

I'd also consider worming any livebearers you bring in. I've battled worms with my guppies/platies/mollies, and it isn't fun, so now I worm any new livebearers while in quarantine as a matter of course, despite not loving the idea of throwing meds at fish unless needed. Just that so many livebearers, being mass produced in huge farms abroad, come carrying different worms. And they can look healthy while carrying a heavy worm burden for months before you see signs of it. So now I treat for both round and flatworms in livebearers before any go near my main tanks. If you decide against that, then just keep an eye out for symptoms of worms like fish being skinny, lethargic, bloated, or stringy white poops.

 

[Colin_T]

Oh, if only salt killed duckweed so easily!

LOL

I'm looking forward to restocking, which I assume will be ok after a couple of weeks?

Don't add any fish for at least one month after everyone has recovered. If you add new fish too soon, they can introduce diseases that infect and kill the current stock, which is already weak due to the issue they now have. Even if the new fish don't have any diseases, the stress of adding new fish to an established tank can affect the current stock, which are in a weakened state.

If you want new fish, buy them now but put them in a quarantine tank (as suggested by AdoraBelle Dearheart). Keep them there for a month and if they are healthy and have ad no problems, then add them to the main tank, assuming everyone has recovered.

 

[zebedee2903]

Morning Colin and AdoraBelle. On the subject of duckweed, I remember reading a while ago someone saying "Be careful what you wish for"! My thinking on it was that I considered the hood light on the 10g was too bright. It's not really an issue for me as I can scoop it out and throw it in the 40g, the black moors love it!
What's the minimum size for the quarantine tank please? Is 5g ok, or too small?

 

[Colin_T]

quarantine tank needs to be big enough for the fish. 10 gallon is probably the minimum size.