New Mbuna Tank

[ddm18]

Hi guys,

Sorry - I'm sure you get bored of these, 'Hey - what shall I keep in my tank', type questions, but on the off-chance that you don't, here's another one

Background - I'm not new to tropical fish, have had two very 'standard' community tanks over the past 10 years or so (wow - that makes me feel old!)

My current tank is 230l (50 Imp / 60 US gal), 48x24x15(ish - it's bow-fronted).

I've thought for a while that I'd like to make it an Mbuna tank, and since I've just moved and sold my previous fishes back to the LFS, now seems like the right time

From what I've read I think my water is OK straight out of the tap - it has a KH of 9, GH of about 215ppm (I'm guessing - it was just off the scale), and a pH of 7.4.

I read in the pinned topic on this forum that a KH of above 8 is most important, which I have, but I think my pH is a bit low - should I add baking soda, as thecichlidaddict suggests?

So - assuming that's all OK - what fish do I want? What I like about Mbuna is the colour and activity, so obviously I'd like suggestions that fit that, as I'm new to them, I guess I don't want to go for hugely aggressive species. From what I've seen in various LFS's, I like Yellow Labs, Pseudotropheus saulosi, Pseudotropheus acei and Melanochromis auratus, but am very open to suggestions.

Suggestions on numbers of each would also be very welcome indeed!

Thanks in advance,
Dave.

 

[kj23502]

From what I've read I think my water is OK straight out of the tap - it has a KH of 9, GH of about 215ppm (I'm guessing - it was just off the scale), and a pH of 7.4.

I read in the pinned topic on this forum that a KH of above 8 is most important, which I have, but I think my pH is a bit low - should I add baking soda, as thecichlidaddict suggests?

That's weird to have hard water w/out a higher ph isn't it??? If you'd like you could try baking soda or a Cichlid buffer meant for these lakes. IMO, the easiest thing to do would be to have aragonite sand as it will leach calcium and things to naturally buffer your water over time.

So - assuming that's all OK - what fish do I want? What I like about Mbuna is the colour and activity, so obviously I'd like suggestions that fit that, as I'm new to them, I guess I don't want to go for hugely aggressive species. From what I've seen in various LFS's, I like Yellow Labs, Pseudotropheus saulosi, Pseudotropheus acei and Melanochromis auratus, but am very open to suggestions.

Auratus is VERY aggressive. I highly advise against that for your first tank. The other fish should work great. With 60 gallons I'd say 17 fish max.

Suggestions on numbers of each would also be very welcome indeed!

Again 17 total.
So you could have Yellow labs 2m:2f, Saulosi 1m:4, Acei 1m:3f. I think that's 13..so you could pick one more species of 1m:3f.

With mbuna you want to have filtration that is at LEAST 5x(300gph) tank turnover. If you get close to 17 adult fish then 8x(480gph) or 10x(600gph) turnover is recommended.

Did you read about feeding. Most mbuna are herbivores or omnivores. There are a select few that are carnivores. It's important to know what you have. If you feed a herbivore meaty protein then it could cause bloat and kill them. But if you have a carnivore and omnivore then a little meaty food would be alright. The carnivore still needs some as it's what it lives off of. Don't feed blood worm as it's one of the foods that could cause bloat. Bloat is almost always fatal so it's better to feed with caution.

You will always see some aggression and fighting. There will be a dominant fish and he will be challenged from time to time. Also, they establish territories in the tank, which is why footprint is really important with these fish. If another fish goes into a different territory then the intruder is likely to be chased away.

Any other questions we can try to help with?


Kj

 

[ddm18]

Thanks for your detailed reply Kj, much appreciated.

That's weird to have hard water w/out a higher ph isn't it???

I'll redo my tests tomorrow, the figures I mentioned were taken not long after I first filled my tank up since moving, so it's possible that it was skewed in some way. I've started it cycling today, so I'll keep checking it, and add some baking powder if necessary. I'm assuming it's OK to do it at the same time as it cycles (I'll go easy ) - I've not done a fishless cycle before, having always had mature media, let me know if I'm being thick...

I am considering swapping my sand as well - what I've got is from my previous tank and (a) I could do with a little more and (b) it doesn't look quite as shiny and new as it once did If I go with the aragonite sand, does its buffering capability 'run out'? I assume there's only so much good stuff for it to leach...? Is this the kind of thing: African Cichlid Substrate

Thanks also for the fish suggestions - all sound pretty good, although I'm also quite liking Cynotilapia afra - would it be feasible to swap some of them for the acei? The feeding sticky suggests that the Cynotilapia's are quite carnivorous omnivores, so might it be a tricky combination with labs + saulosi?

Filtration-wise, by my calculations I'm at about 310 gal/hour from two filters (an Eheim 2213, 400 l/h + build in Juwel filter, which claims 1000 l/h) - I'll see how I go with 13ish, and build up slowly if I can. I do have a Fluval external filter and another hang-on internal one that I might bring out of retirement.

Think that's all for now - thanks again Kj

 

[kj23502]

That's weird to have hard water w/out a higher ph isn't it???

I'll redo my tests tomorrow, the figures I mentioned were taken not long after I first filled my tank up since moving, so it's possible that it was skewed in some way. I've started it cycling today, so I'll keep checking it, and add some baking powder if necessary. I'm assuming it's OK to do it at the same time as it cycles (I'll go easy ) - I've not done a fishless cycle before, having always had mature media, let me know if I'm being thick...

I've heard of the lower ph w/hard water...but it does sound really wierd. I've read lots that says generally hard water has a higher ph b/c it's buffered well (which makes the water hard). Unless there's unstable things in the water??? I don't know much about how local municipalites doctor their water either.

I am considering swapping my sand as well - what I've got is from my previous tank and (a) I could do with a little more and (b) it doesn't look quite as shiny and new as it once did If I go with the aragonite sand, does its buffering capability 'run out'? I assume there's only so much good stuff for it to leach...? Is this the kind of thing: African Cichlid Substrate

Yep, that'll work. It's supposed to buffer for the life of the aquarium.

Thanks also for the fish suggestions - all sound pretty good, although I'm also quite liking Cynotilapia afra - would it be feasible to swap some of them for the acei? The feeding sticky suggests that the Cynotilapia's are quite carnivorous omnivores, so might it be a tricky combination with labs + saulosi?

My bad...the "Cobue" is apparently an omnivore, but yet about 16 variations of c. afra are carnivores. I got my fish crossed
That'd probably be fine together. Remember that fish are individuals and what may work in one tank may not work in another because of that.


KJ

 

[dthoffsett]

Just thought I'd add that checking your PH while fishless cycling isn't indicative of what the ph will be when the tank is cycled. The large amounts of ammonia added will cause the ph to swing quite a bit. So, I'd recommend waiting until the cycle is finished before adding any additional buffers (with the exception of the substrate of course).

 

[ddm18]

Hi again,

Just bumping an old thread to say firstly thanks - I have the beginnings of my first mbuna tank

My cycle took about a month - ammonia spiked really fast - about 3 days, then nitrites seemed to take aaaaages, but got there eventually!

Having tested my pH, KH and GH, with the tank cycled, I have a pH of 8.0, KH of 11 degrees and GH of 15 degrees, without any additives or the like, which I'm pretty pleased about.

Fish-wise, my plan is for my 4 yellow labs (2m, 2f), 4 saulosi (1m, 3f) and 4 cobues (hopefully 2m, 2f, otherwise 1m, 3f - advice?). I'm hoping that I can shoehorn a few more in after that, but I'll take it easy, obviously.

I've actually already got my 4 yellow labs - went to my LFS on the weekend, intending to get either all or most of the above, but their selection was pretty poor, with just the yellow labs available, so I got them, figuring that as they're the least aggressive, it's probably fair that they have a little time on their own

They seem pretty happy so far; although they've been hiding a lot today. Sunday afternoon they spent about 20 minutes being scared in a corner, but after an hour were swimming around the whole tank, checking out the caves. They carried on with this all day Monday, but today, it's been almost as if they've found their favourite caves, and are happy just sitting in them. They're really bright, and are swimming around a bit - they don't appear ill at all, but just seem slightly different today. Whenever I approach the tank, they dart back into their hiding places, and you'd swear there were no fish there at all! The last couple of days they've seemed as interested in me as I am in them, but now they seem afraid of me They do come out if I sit still for a few minutes, but are still pretty wary.

Any thoughts?

 

[kj23502]

Chances are they'll be wary for awhile. Plus, since they're the only fish in the tank, they don't have much comfort of others not hiding.

For the afra I would have 1 male only. There's another topic on african forum by chr_15 that explains his situation w/more than 1 cynotilapia male. One keeps getting beat up.

And ya know ya need Come on now...



Kj