New Discus Advice

[hargreavesheber]

Hi there, I've recently purchased 6 x 3" Discus for my Planted 4ft Community Tank. Ever since i put them in they have hidden behind plants and rocks, I have only seen the odd 1 pop out from time to time. Some of them have gone dark in colour too. Slightly worried.....
They have only been in for 3 days, so i'm hoping they're just nervous/stressed with the move.? Is this normal??
3x Peneng Eruptions
3x Alenquer Reds

Whats the best food to get them eating, as they don't seem too bothered at the moment.
Any advice welcome......
Many thanks
Heberh

 

[rabbut]

Can you tell us a little more about your set-up please?

How long has the tank been set-up?
What water test results do you have for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH and temperature?
Are they locally bred fish, shop-bought fish or imported directly from a breeder?
What are their tank mates? (i.e. what's in the tank with them?)
What equipment are you running?
What food are you offering?
What size tank is it? (volume and size measurements)

It sounds at this stage as though it's just stress. These are "advanced" fish, not because they are difficult to keep, but because many people are too ignorant to look into the needs of these guys before they purchase them. They are easy to keep if you follow the "rules" of keeping them, but they are hard work, especially at that size. Under 3", they are going to need daily 50% water changes, unless it's a big tank. As 4" plus, they can "skip along" on two 50% water changes fine in a "heavily loaded" tank, or 50% weekly if they are kept in a lightly stocked tank.

Not being funny, but the fact that you don't know what to feed them concerns me that you may not have done adequate research prior to purchase. While I'm happy to help as far as I can, as will most members on here, if you haven't done your research you will be fighting an up-hill battle of catch-up, trying to learn about the fish in your care, as they fall ill, trying to prevent loosing them. You don't need to be a fish geek to realise that isn't the way to keep any fish. Have a think about the research you have done. If you have done very little and don't think you know the answer to your own question re. feeding (without going onto google to find out now ), I'd suggest it would be best to return them to the place of purchase now, rather than watching them die one-by-one. The fact that you have more than the minimum group is re-assuring however, that you may be a well researched keeper that suspect the fish aren't following the text books however If you don't know the answer to your own question and you are reluctant to get rid of them, ask yourself if you'd find it easier to get rid, research for a few weeks then get a few more when you know what you are doing, or to keep them and constantly know they are dieing on you, but not quite being sure why...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[hargreavesheber]

Tank 48x18x15"
Been running since May 09
Tetratec EX700 and EX600 filters
ph 6.8
Ammo 0
Nitri 0
Nitra 5-10
Kh 2
Temp 28C

10% changes daily at moment, have been doing 25% a week prior to Discus.

Discus imported from Malaysia.

8 Sterbi Corrys
2 Bristlenose Plecs
20 Neon/Cardinal Tetras
6 Black phantom Tetras
4 Small Clown Loaches
4 Small Red line torpedo barbs

I have been offering bloodworm and SERA Discus pellets. I haven't tried Beef heart yet.

I have done quite a lot of research on the net, books etc before purchasing, as i can't afford to loose them.Plus they are beautiful fish, if they'd come out from hiding......

Would you say it is normal for them to be hiding behind plants/rocks and turning dark when moved to new surroundings?? I got 6 as ther're supposed to feel safer in groups.
The only discus i've seen in LFS's have been in, Discus ONLY tanks with no substrate/plants etc, so they can't hide. many thanks Heberh

 

[rabbut]

It's fairly normal for new discus, particularly young ones, to hide and to refuse to eat when new.

Are you doing anything to lower the pH? If they are Malaisan stock, they will only have seen a pH below 7 in the bag on the way to the shop, so a pH of 6.8 will potentially be stressing them. I'd advise you to look into raising it a little. Contrary to what most Discus books will tell you, Discus grow better in harder water with Alkaline pH, so that's how most commercial breeders will raise them, they grow quicker in higher pH water, so they can get them out the door quicker and not spend as much feeding them up and growing them on

Smaller Discus stunt easily while growing. Until they get to 4", they need a virtually spotless tank, or they usually will stunt. This means daily gravel cleans in a planted tank, but ideally they'd be raised to 4" in a separate bare-bottomed tank before being transfered to the planted tank. The only way a tank with gravel can be kept "nearly spotless", it large water changes and gravel cleans on a daily basis to remove waste, hence why I'd suggest upping water change volume.

Torpedo barbs aren't a great choice with Discus. They are a large, fast moving fish that tend to stress them out. It would be best to re-home them to another tank Clown Loach *supposedly* aren't a great choice either, but I've never know anyone have issues mixing the two. I know a few that have hit trouble after adding Torpedo Barbs however

The temperature is OK, but would be better higher, ideally around 30c. The only fish that won't take that heat in there are the Torpedo Barbs, so there is another good reason to get shot of them A higher temperature will speed up their metabolism, making them "hungrier". Also, with the Discus, it will give their immune system a boost, helping to ward off internal parasites and Flukes, two infestations this fish are prone to

So, I'd suggest upping water change volume to 50% daily, loosing the Torpedo Barbs and upping the temperature to begin with.

It looks like my initial worries aren't justified however. All looks OK, there certainly isn't any definite no-no's in your current care. Feeding is going to need work, but that isn't an immediately pressing issue.

With feeding, you want a minimum of 4 feeds a day (once they are feeding), two being fresh or frozen feeds, and the other two being a dry discus pellet. The SERA stuff is OK for the dried. For fresh or frozen food, you will need more verity however. I used to offer "tropical quintet", a type of frozen ready-meals for fish basically, containing five different frozen feeds. I'd offer that at one feeding a day, and then Peas, Cucumber and other "greens" for the ther fresh or frozen feed. I personally wouldn't feed beef-heart as I feel it potentially dangerous to offer long-term. As a grow-on food it's OK, but it contains many anti-vitamins and lots of fat. It isn't a great feed, as it removes the "goodness" your other feeds add. One thing that most will agree however, is that if you offer Beef-heart, you shouldn't offer it alone, it needs to be mixed with other stuff and hence is should be a relatively small bit of the "Beef-heart mix"

All the best
Rabbut

 

[hargreavesheber]

Many thanks for your advice,
I have currently got SERA Peat in the EX 700 lowering the Ph a touch as all the info i recieved, was that Discus Require Acidic Ph....6.5 being ideal. So Alkaline is news to me .The barbs were a recent purchase, I had done research before buying them, and had heard that people have been successful in keeping them with Discus.

Would your advice be to remove the peat, or replace with Oyster shell to increase KH/ph??
Forgot to mention i had a Angel Fish in with them. I've heard mixed reports so haven't removed him yet???
Is it true that Discus can't stand any Ammonia/Nitrite? As the bag they came in had yellow and nasty water.I tubed water in a bucket with them in for a hour with a airline pipe to get them used to my water, and kept removing some water to another bucket.

Only problem i can tell with heving them in a community tank, is that they are having to compete for food with all other fish darting about, any feeding tips???

Cheers

 

[rabbut]

Yes, I'd get the peat out. One heck of a lot of people loose Discus to messing around with the pH. The mucking about isn't needed and in many cases is detrimental to the fish IME. Whether you will need to up the pH and KH above what your tap water on it a different question to some extent. What readings for pH and KH do you get for your tap water after it's sat in a bucket for a few hours?

I had a breeding pair of angels in with my Discus for quite a while. If anything, the angels were coming off worse The Discus would let them have a section of the tank and spawn, before moving in to munch on their eggs. Both entertaining and saddening to watch at the same time

Discus definitely won't do well if exposed to Ammonia and Nitrite for a length of time. Yellow water does not necessarily contain ammonia, as water usually yellows due to tannins in the water or dissolved organics. Also, in the bag, the pH will drop due to a CO2 build-up, so Ammonia will convert to Ammonium, which is only as toxic as Nitrate. Nitrite does not tend to get overly high in a bag, as nothing converts Ammonia to Nitrite in there (in notable quantities), so the only Nitrite to be present is that expired directly by the fish and any that was present in the previous tank's water.

As the Discus settle, they will become more bold and out-going. As such, it will eventually become them that does the darting about tracking down every scrap of food at meal times, pushing the other fish out, instead. Not many fish will mess with a Dinner plate sized tank-mate that decides it wants that smaller fishes food Until then, it's just add enough food for all to be gone inside 2 mins, but that enough still gets to the Discus to keep them going until they settle

All the best
Rabbut