New Babies, Ill Gourami?

[AnneSo]

Hello Everybody!

I ve just started a tank and already loads of things happened:

I got 4barbs, a gourami, 2 silverr sharks, and a suckermouth fish and everything was alright.
I went to the shop (after 5 weeks) to check the water 2 days ago and it was perfect so I bought 2 mollies, another peppermint suckermouth fish and two little yellow and red ones that look a bit like guppies.
Today I noticed that I have two cute babies but i have no idea from which fish they came from, they seem to hide behind the filter (big fish cannot reach) and I really hope they will survive.
The Gourami seems really unwell today and he was fine two days ago so I don't understand. I think he is a male because his dorsal fin is not round, but he has a big belly and he seems really weak and he stays at the surface of the water.
So I don't really know what to do..
Could you help me please>?

 

[dwarfgourami]

What size is the tank? It is probably a good idea to get your own test kit; I suspect that your adding a lot of fish at once may have led to rising ammonia and nitrite levels; this could be causing your gourami's problems. His symptoms sound like dropsy, which is basically acute organe failure, can be brought on by a number of things. It may be a bacterial infection, again something that is often (not always) related to water quality.

The babies will be young mollies; they should do fine on crushed flakes, as long as they manage to keep themselves from being eaten.

What is your first suckermouth fish? It is essential to know as some grow very large indeed (and quickly) which will cause problems unless you have an absolutely enormous tank.

 

[TerraDreamer]

How big is the tank? How long have you had water in it? And I agree with the post above me, you should purchase your own water testing kit and NOT trust the person at the shop.

Are you aware of how big your sharks will get? They can grow to 14". And I would not mix a gourami with barbs or sharks. What type of gourami is it? It's probably being terrorized. What type of suckermouth? There are as many varieties of suckermouths as there are of tetras.

How often are you cleaning your tank? What is the water temperature? What is your method used in cleaning your filter?

 

[AnneSo]

Hello,
Thank you for your answers.
It is a tetra aqua art tank, 60 litres, and it came with the filter, light and heater. The temperature of the water is 26 C.
The Gourami died today. It was becoming weaker and weaker and was not even eating. So we took it of the tank before he could cause problem to other fish.
My first suckermouth fish is light brown with brown dots, like a leopard. The new one is bigger, black and has bright tiny blue dots, I think it was a peppermint.
The Gourami was a blue neon. I was adviced to start with it, the man in the shop said he was a tough fish, but he was actually quite shy, except that he started to be aggressive when I put the mollies in the tank.
I now hope that my other fish are not contaminated with what the gourami had.
I clean the filter every 2 weeks using water from the tank.
How many more fish can I have in my tank, and what kind would you advise to me?
I don't really know what to think of the people in the shop because they say different things. They told me the sharks can grow big but not in my tank.
One man told me that I could have Angel fish because they won't grow that big (he wishes) ans his colleague told me that they could grow the size of a plate so he would'nt adviced taht.
As for the babies, they seem to have found a place next to the filter, they pop up rarely but i really hope they will survive!

 

[AnneSo]

I also forgot to say that I also have two shrimps.

 

[sylvia]

Your tank is extremely overstocked. Read the links in my signature about cycling to understand why starting with the gourami was a bad idea.

Don't clean the filter in your tank. Only if it gets clogged, just use a bucket of old tank water to rinse it off (as you say you are doing anyway). Otherwise you'll be killing off the good bacteria in your tank regularly and causing deadly ammonia spikes. Obviously, water changes are crucial - always use DECHLORINATED water.

Don't add any fish to your tank. You need to find the silver sharks, suckermouths and possibly the barbs (what kind of barb?) a new home. Your tank's far too small for any of them. The silver sharks, especialy, need a 125 gallon tank - that's about 500 litres! Your tank is 60 litres - that's about 15 gallons and barely large enough even for mollies.

Your fish store should take them back - but don't expect a refund.

Just so you are aware in future, the gourami you bought - a dwarf gourami (Colisa lalia) - is a particularly fragile species and very prone to disease. It's typical of them to die without much warning but the bloating you described (particularly if it was a colorful male) is one of the signs of dropsy - usually an internal bacterial infection.

Ignore absolutely anything you hear from LFS employees Some of them know what they are talking about - but most don't have a clue and it's worth getting into the habit of researching stuff for yourself.

 

[AnneSo]

OK, thanks for the answer. According to what you're saying I've been completely mislead by the staff in the shop. It's weird because they seem to be really knowledgeable, and they won't just sell me anything, they have told me that my tank is unsuitable for a number of species already.

Are you suggesting that I should return the sharks right away, or just when they get too big? For the moment they seem happy to me, they;re no more than 2.5 inches long each, but then I'm not an expert, just a beginner.

I think the barbs are tiger barbs and they're no more than an inch long each for the moment. If all that you're saying is true and my tank is overstocked with the wrong types of fish then I'm very dissappointed with the service in the aquarium. What types of fish would you recommend for me and how many?

 

[Tessla]

Sorry to hear that you got bad advice from the shop. What you heard about sharks and angelfish not growing to full size in small tanks is true... but this is because they become stunted in small tanks and their life spans are shortened. Common "myth" that gets perpetuated a lot without explaining the full truth behind it. Because of this, you will want to take back or rehome the fish that grow too large as soon as possible. The silver sharks and "suckerfish" should definitely go, tiger barbs get up to about three inches which is a bit large for something you need to keep in a school. You'll probably want to take out the barbs just because they tend to go after other fish. I'd steer clear of mollies as well since they tend to prefer slightly brackish water.

Now what you can stock! Your guppies are fabulous for small tanks, you could add a few more male guppies in different colors if you'd like. Another option would be a small group of schooling tetras or rasboras, neon tetra size or smaller. What sort of shrimp do you have? Algae shrimp like amanos and cherry shrimp would do well, as would ghost shrimp, I'd avoid bamboo shrimp and other filter feeders. petshrimp.com should help you ID your shrimp. A single honey or dwarf gourami will do well as a centerpiece fish; you really don't want to go with anything larger than that. Otocinclus (sometimes labeled as otos or ottos) are a great small algae eating suckerfish, only add them once your tank is settled as they can be delicate, a group of three would do well. Alternatively, you could keep a small group of dwarf corydoras catfish, they do well in a group four or five.

When looking at fish for stocking, look at the adult size of the fish since pretty much every fish sold will be a juvenile. Look around at different species to find things you'd like, and make yourself a shopping list for stocking. You can check back on the forums to get input on your list. Stick to small fish for your tank, one to two inches tops especially if they will be kept in groups. Look up information from different sources for every fish that you're interested in, some may require special care. The one inch per gallon rule is a decent guideline to stock with, you could keep about 15 inches of adult small fish in your tank total. If you find yourself falling in love with larger fish or wanting to stock your tank with more fish than you should, you might want to start looking into larger tanks: go for the largest size that you can afford and fit in your home.

Good luck with your tank!

 

[TerraDreamer]

OK, thanks for the answer. According to what you're saying I've been completely mislead by the staff in the shop. It's weird because they seem to be really knowledgeable, and they won't just sell me anything, they have told me that my tank is unsuitable for a number of species already.

Don't worry, you're not the first to discover the truth abut LFS employees. What you must remember is, they love repeat customers.

Are you suggesting that I should return the sharks right away, or just when they get too big? For the moment they seem happy to me, they;re no more than 2.5 inches long each, but then I'm not an expert, just a beginner.

That's five inches of fish. That's also fully one third of your tank's capacity and they're not done growing. Sharks need huge tanks. It's best to re-home them now, along with the plecs. There is no compelling reason whatsoever to keep a plec in a 15 gallon tank.

I think the barbs are tiger barbs and they're no more than an inch long each for the moment. If all that you're saying is true and my tank is overstocked with the wrong types of fish then I'm very dissappointed with the service in the aquarium. What types of fish would you recommend for me and how many?

As mentioned here, fish grow. The fish you have today will be far different 6 months from now. Use the 1" of fish per gallon rule, and when using that rule, use the final adult size of the fish, not its current juvenile size. You have 15 gallons minus strata and ornaments. Figure for 12" of fish in your tank; maybe a few inches more if your filtration is outstanding (over filtered). In a happy, healthy, properly stocked and maintained tank fish grow rather quickly.

As far as what types, one doesn't have to search for very long on this site to find recommendations for stocking particular tank sizes. One thing I do is when I read of an interesting fish here, I'll use Google Images to look it up. Clicking on the image usually takes you to a web site that has information on the particular fish: size, water requirements, min. tank size, foods, compatible tank mates, etc.

You're not in so deep that you can't make mid-course corrections. As a matter of fact it's never too late for changes. There are many knowledgable people here; ask away! If there's anything people love to do on this site it's to talk about their favorite fish. If you don't believe me, just start a thread called "Help me stock my 15 gallon tank!"

You'll do fine! Just ask people here first before buying a particular fish. Soon you'll have a very happy community.

Regards.

 

[Jozlyn]

Along with taking note of the fishes eventual adult size, you also need to check each ones particular water needs. I use a table in Word with seperate colums for the fish name, common & species, water temperature, ph, kh, minium stocking amount ie 1 or a school of 4 +, 6+ etc also male to female ratio's ie 1 male to every 2, 3 or 4 females, whether or not their live bearers (in that case get males, 'cause the females are almost always already pregnant and before you know it you'll have a tank full of fry!), or egg layers, whether they're aggressive or peaceful, and the fish that are recommended to go with them, what type food the eat, flake, live, algae wafer etc Make sure you check plenty of websites so that you get the maximum information.

Now that I've written that all down, it sounds a bit daunting, it's not tho, it makes it really easy to figure out what your water parameters should be to keep everyone in the best health.

It's a good idea to pick the fish you like the most and work out the rest of the stocking around it.

And of course it's always a good idea to ask questions about stocking before you go and buy your fish, you'll find lots and lots of good advice on here.

 

[AnneSo]

OK, thanks everybody. Some really helpful information here!