New 24g Nano Project...

[Fowlersrs]

hi guys, ive got a freshly filled 24g d and d nano tank that use to house marines, anyway, ive given that up in the search of something new to keep me entertained so ive decided to convert it over to a planted tank!

Anyway, so far ive installed under soil heating on the tank which is linked up to a digital controller, I have filled the tank with re mineralised ro water and have a 3-4 inch deep substrate of gravel, sand and jbl pro flora mix. I have 2 pieces of bogwood in the tank which where already soaked so they r ready. the system has been running for a few days but I want to get a few more things in place before I start stocking for a fishless cycle!!

so a few questions..

firstly, the whole cycling fishless thing, im planning on stocking with quite a few plants but im a little unsure what selection yet, but if the system is say 50% planted, is it accpetable to add say 6 neon tetra at the same time to kick start the system?

also, the remaining things I want to get in place consist of co2, lighting, and nutrient dosing stuff...

* so co2, in a marine setup to dose calcium id of used a PH controller with a probe in the tank to control the unit, can this be done on a tropic tank to control the c02 dosing via a solenoid? can the monitor determine the co2 needs from a ph reading alone??

* next lighting, I am replacing the marine lamps with 2 x 35w interpet daylight compact t5 lamps, so 70w for 20 gallons (roughly) is just above 3wpg... this will mean il need to be on top of nutrients and co2 right?

* lastly, nutrient dosing, in my pro flora start I got ferropol 24 and a standard ferropol, are these any good and would u recommend them for continued dosing??

last but not least, stocking ideas..

can anyone gauge me roughly what I should be looking to stock, limits, recommendations for starter plants etc.. this really is an unkown field for me and I want to do as much research as I can before purchase...

 

[SuperColey1]

The words 24gallons and Nano are a bit of a contradiction in my eyes. lol I think you can say 24USG isn't a Nano and is actually an average 20-40USG size. Therefore don't get into the 'Nanos require more lighting' way of thinking here.

No specific need to fishless cycle in a planted tank because you should be aiming at higher filtration/flow and be doing higher water changes in the first few weeks. However the last fish I would cycle with are Neons due to their sensitivity. I would choose your fish stocking and go for the hardier ones. Neons should really go into a matured, stable setup. Different people have different ideas on what constitutes a matured tank but I would leave them until the 4-6 month period when the setup is established.

Ph controllers are rarely used in a planted tank. CO2 needs to remain constant and therfore a 'controller' switching it on and off via a Ph reading renders the CO2 pointless because it won't be stable. The Ph controller would be assuming that the change in Ph is completely down to CO2 and would also be assuming that a certain change = the right level.

The first assumption would be wrong because many other things alter Ph even within an established tank such as wood etc. The second assumption is wrong because at differen KH the chang in Ph for the same concentration of CO2 will be different. Therefore you can set the Ph controller to say 1.2Ph below the 'norm' as a safety measure to stop CO2 if there is a crash but the crash will more likely be from something else and not the CO2.

So set the level of CO2 via bubble rate and a drop checker using 4dKH and bromo blue to get your 30ppm (or other preferred level) consistent and just use the controller as a 'safety net' to limit CO2s effect in the event of a Ph crash.

Heated substrate cables are a thing of the past. The 'gurus' of planted tanks despise them because they say they make no difference at all and are their marketing 'blurb' contradicts the 'actual' needs within a planted tank. However you have already installed it so is your choice wether or not to use it.

3WPG is very high in PC lighting . forget the WPG scale. You'll be closer to the equivalent of 4.5-5WPG using PC!!! That is going to cause problems for anyone but the expert.

With pressurised and with your level of experience I would suggest to be able to grow anything you want then 2WPG T5Linear, 2.5WPG T5PC, 3WPG of T8 should be the max that anyone needs!!!

I personally use 0.9WPG of T5 linear!!! I can grow most things and would only up it to 1.5ish if I wanted to grow carpets.

At higher levels of light assuming you go less than you have suggested above I would go for Ei or similar routine and make the mixtures yourself. The Ferropol will not have the right elements to be anything other than a trace element provider so you could use them alongside a macro mix of KNO3 and KH2PO4 as the source for trace elements. However I wouldn't I would mix up some trace elements as well from powders.

Plantwise as a first attempt with no experience in this hobby I would suggest buying a cheap collection off ebay. These will mainly be fast growing stems, easy to grow. some will grow, some will die and some will be non aquatic BUT more importantly they won't cost much and from the varieties you get you can learn what grows well what doesn't without breaking the bank. It will also give you much practive in the art of pruning to get the effects you see in the top tanks.

After you get a little more experience and get the CO2/dosing/light/circulation right then you can start chucking cheap plants you don't want and get some more expensive plants you do like without the worry of spending money for it to look like mush a few weeks later.

Being from Marine you will already be in a habit of knowing good lighting and good circulation which is good but you will also be in the habit of continuously testing and worrying about changing tank parameters (nearly all reefers that move to planted seem to go for Ph controllers to the amusement of non reefers and sometimes refuse to accept that the arguments against them are valid.)

This is a post I ahave taken from another forum I frequent from a marine person talking about Freshwater planted tanks:

The only thing I can find similar to the FW Plant tank is the lights and the circulation. But when it comes to other things like NO3, PO4, CO2, pH, etc... they are two different worlds.

SW's holy trinity is KH/pH, Calcium, Magnesium (if flow is good)
in FW Planted is CO2, NO3, PO4 (if flow is good)

Most freshwater people which report some sort of a problem state that their tank is totally OK and in fine balance
Of course when asked how can they know that and 99% answer with;
"I tested for pH and it is normal" What is with this pH obsession ???

It is hard to kill the myth which was carved into so many fish books and sites for the last few decades when it comes to freshwater tanks. pH is very important when it comes to breeding certain freshwater fish but in planted tanks NO.

So good flow, correct level of lighting, good dosing and good CO2 is the key in a planted tank. Parameters are a side issue as they are rarely a problem for fish, plant or user alike no matter what you read to the contrary. Many planted people me included haven't tested for a long long time. Not through lasyness but because there is no need.

AC

 

[SexyFishKeeper]

What Andy said lol

 

[Fowlersrs]

Ok, ive been a busy boy today, I have returned back with co2 bottle, gauge, tubing, non return valve and diffuser...

now I also picked up 4 plants and some root tabs to get me started, anyway, ive planted them and placed 4 root tabs next to them in the substrate and they look good, next I set about testing my water, and the following readings I got...

PH = 7.5
KH = 5
GH = 7

now reading off this table in the tetra book it says ive got a co2 concentration of 5mg, is this correct? what does that = in ppm?
im a bit confused to say the least... any advice?

one other thing thats confusing me is ive got a ladder type diffuser on my setup and all the bubbles seem to be doing is rising to the top, arnt they spose to get stuck in the ladder? confused!!

any help much appreciated...

 

[aaronnorth]

ppm and mg/l are the same in freshwater tanks.