never tested for ammonia......

[Cavafish]

Hi

Like the topic title says I've never tested for ammonia.

Get off!! No need to jump on me like that!

My tank has been set up for 18 months now, all readings are stable (always have been), if not ideal (nitrate is always high despite water changes). Nitrite has always read zero.

What I want to know is do I really need to know what the ammonia levels are if my nitrite is always zero? My logic says that if nitrite is zero and nitrate is always 50 - 100 then my filter is converting all of the ammonia, and all the nitrite, and leaving me with bucket loads of nitrate. If I have had a change in the level of ammonia (new fish added etc) then my filter must have reacted to this adequatly to have converted everything in a stable way. Yes? or No?

Please, dont all jump on my case, I'm willing to listen to logic and change things where necessary.

 

[Paul_MTS]

Whats your current water change duties, your nitrates are pretty high....

there's not that much need testing for ammonia if you have the usual fish but if you get a problem its always best to have an ammonia reading even if it is just to rule that possibilty out.

 

[Cavafish]

water changes every week, filter maintenance done at same time as per juwel instructions. Gravel vac always used (why wouldn't you?)

Nitrates are a bug bear to me...

 

[Paul_MTS]

how much do you change??

and what are the juwel instrutions....???

you should be washing the blue sponges in tank water as and when the filter slows but you need to do each sponge alternate(so ones cleaned 1 week then the other the week other) the carbon can be replaced each month if you want but you don't need it, filter floss can be rinsed out in tap water a few times before putting in a new one.

and remeber to clean the impeller every now and then.

also what nitrates does your tap water have?

 

[B75]

I know that my water readings are quite high so it must be the area we live in, I live on the mendips in Somerset and I've had readings of 50ppm.

 

[steelhealr]

Hi...I would always test for ammonia. Remember, ammonia is converted by nitrosamonas to nitrite. If you overload/pollute the tank, you could theoretically surpass the amount of ammonia that can be converted to nitrite by the bacteria and have an ammonia spike. Experts..correct me if I am wrong. SH

 

[Cavafish]

ok.

white filter floss changed every week - not rinsed, changed
black carbon sponge changed every six weeks
blue filters rinsed out in tank water every six weeks on a rotation basis
impeller and housing etc cleaned every 2-3 weeks

tap water as B75 says - up at 50ppm

20 - 25% water change each week - not too hard with a python!


I like what you are saying there steelhealr. If I'm understanding you right you are suggesting that the filter is converting as much as it can and is at max capacity but there is still more ammonia in the water that it cant deal with. The levels of the nitrite eating bugs are sufficient to deal with what is converted but I need more ammonia munching bacteria......therefore ammonia testing required. DOH

Please can we get some confirmation on this?

 

[Bignose]

yes, steelhealr is exactly right.

Consider the cycle as a series of reactions that can be written as:

Am --> Ni --> Na

Ammonia is convetered to Nitrite is then converted to Nitrate.

The rate at which each reaction proceeds is primarily dependent upon the amount of bateria that are available. Whatever your current bioload is, the population of bacteria have grown to sufficient levels to handle the average daily output in your tank. We can call this 100%

Say you have an ammonia spike, some food remains uneaten, a fish passes away while you leave for a holiday or a weekend, or any other reason. So, lets say there is now 300% of your normal daily amount of ammonia.

The first reaction, Am --> Ni will only proceed at it normal rate at first, the population takes some time to increase its numbers. So, after 1 day, there is 200% ammonia left, and 100% normal daily nitrite. (b/c the original ammonia bacteria have made one day's worth of). In the exact same way, the original nitrite converting bacteria are also converting nitrate. So, 100% of daily nitrite is then also converted to nitrate.

End result: 200% Am, 0% Ni, 100% Na. High levels of ammonia left, but no change in nitrite. Which your current testing regime would not detect.

On a personal note, I have noticed that when I have to use a medication that disrupts the biological filter, some ammonia remains, but the nitrite levels are almost always zero. So, what I have decribed has always happened in my cases.

 

[pahansen]

That's all very interesting. I had been wondering the same thing as Cavafish, but never got around to posting. Makes perfect sense, but I haven't had to do chemical reactions since college. (Unless you count "What chemical reaction could possibly cause a diaper to smell this bad???")

Steelhealr and Bignose, since you're both in the US as well, are there any test kits that will test for ammonia as well as the routine other things (nitrite, nitrate, hardness, pH, etc.) that come on a standard combination strip? I had neglected to buy a separate ammonia kit because I figured that if my nitrite was safe, the tank was safe. (And who needs a bunch of superfluous kits laying around?)

If I have to buy a separate test kit, how often would you recommend testing for ammonia? Once a month? Quarterly? Only if there seemed to be a problem that you couldn't put your finger on? Just curious.

Thanks for the info,
Pamela

 

[steelhealr]

Hi Pamela....I like the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kit. You can buy them almost anywhere online if you can't get it near you. I think they are more sensitive than the dipsticks (the liquid tests). It's one box with tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and high pH.

http/www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/produc...3;pcid1=;pcid2=

There is an add on gH/kH kit.

http/www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/produc...id1=3233;pcid2=

After cycling, I tested every couple of days to ensure there was no dramatic changes. Then I tested weekly with a pre water change and post water change just to check to see how my water changes were doing and get an idea how much my nitrate lowered afterward. Now, I test weekly, all parameters (I make Sundays or Saturdays 'tank day'). My tank has been very stable. Hope this helps. SH

 

[pahansen]

Thanks. I'll look for that test kit when I'm out next time. Certainly easier than doing two separate tests.

-- Pamela

 

[Cavafish]

Ah-ha. I think I get it although I must hold my hand up and say that I dont follow you exactly Bignose on the day 1, day 2 stuff but I do get the general principle and it makes sense to me. I hate chemistry. Got a GCSE in it though and I only attended a handful of classes......

I have also only used the dip-strip style of test kit (the litmus paper style ones).
My question to all you proper knowledgable types is:

should my ammonia test be from the same kit/manufacturer to my other tests or can I mix up the style of the tests? Would mixing different sorts give innaccurate results?

Cheers