Need Help With Fin Rot---it's Returned...

[wendyngd]

Hi-

I think it's fin rot. My betta's pelvic (front--looks like wings) fins both look like someone took a bite out of each-a semi-circle shaped rip. It was only one several weeks ago, tried melafix, and then a course of erithromycin (pardon my spelling--antibiotic) and daily water changes! It seemed to halt it, limiting it only to one front fin, but now, a few weeks later, the other fin looks like it's been bitten (he's alone in his tank)! And I think I may have noticed a slight stringy shred hanging from the top of his dorsal fin!!! Otherwise, he's his happy little friendly, hungry self!

Luckily, it hasn't spread to any other fins. But I know I have to stop this before it progresses. I've read about Jungle rot eliminator--or something like that. Has anyone ever used it--does it work? Should I bother trying to find some? Or does anyone have any other ideas?? I just added some more aquarium salt last nt. when I did a water change. I usually do with a big one, but was worried it would be too much for the fish with smaller changes. I also always add a drop of Coppersafe, too, in a large water change.\

PLEASE ADVISE ANY SUGGESTIONS...I love my Bettalicious!

Thanks. -Wendy

 

[Colin_T]

sounds like you are trying to poison your fish. Adding medications and antibiotics. No more, please.
What is coppersafe?

Finrot is generally brought about by poor water quality (ammonia, nitrite & nitrate) that damages the fish's mucous coating. Then bacteria can get in and start to destroy the fins. It is most common in the tail and dorsal (top) fins. It can also be caused by really acidic water (PH below 6.0) but this is an uncommon cause in bettas.

Is there a filter on the tank? If not try doing a 50% water change every couple of days. Make sure any new water going into the tank is free of chlorine and has a similar temperature and PH to the tank water.
If you do have a filter on the tank then do the same water changes but once a week.
Try to siphon out any rubbish on the bottom. If you can't do that then remove the fish and half the water to a clean container. Stir the gravel up and pour the dirty water out. Put the fish and the remaining old water back in the tank and add some clean water for the water change.

A semi-circle shaped rip in each of the pectoral (side) fins could be self inflicted. Finrot tends to look more like someone has run a knife along the fins and they become tattered and frayed. Like a piece of material with frayed ends.

 

[wendyngd]

Colin-- I appreciate the help, but not "the dramatics!" No, I'm not trying to "kill" my fish. If I administered any of these melafix or antibiotic, fyi, I usually waited at least a week between them and did major water changes and lots of little ones.

I'm sending you a copy of the response I sent to the responses I received from the Betta Forum on this. This should answer some of your questions. Thank you so much for taking the time to write and give me some very good suggestions. -Wendy




Thank you all so much for the quick response--some good suggestions fr me to think about a bit.

After the first fin rot incident, I did take a somewhat spikey silk plant with plastic frame out. He has two more in there he loves o sleep and hide under the leaves, but maybe they're scratching and injuring him. I will try to find some new, soft ones and maybe take one out. That was a really good suggestion. Some one else wrote me on another thread and said that fin rot's usually shredded fins, not bites like my guy has.

He's in a 3 gallon, heated tank with a pico filter (how do I describe this?) water moves in and out and is filtered through 2 sponges and carbon. I change his water at least once a week-more lately with all this. I vacuum it out every other week. I keep it around 80 degrees F and almost always match the temp when I add freshly treated water.

The gravel stones are full of green algae. Do I need to take those out and clean them throughly or replace?

The ph, nitrates, etc. have all been normal. I HAVE been fighting spiking ammonia levels. I use ammo lock and clean the tank (and scoop up extra food) but it's still been a problem. I have seen that affect him. He will sort of hide out on the ground of the tank and sleep in a different way than normal..

I have been adding a drop of Coppersafe to prevent parasites.

I guess I'll try the melafix again. Didn'' seem to do much before--which is why I then did 4 days of antibiotics. I hate putting anything like that in because I have to remove the charcoal/carbon, whatever..

I'll keep you informed when I can ge the laptop away from my hubby! tHANKS SO MUCH FOR THE SUPPORT! --Wendy (and Bettalicious...)


--------------------
"HELP! I'VE BEEN BITTEN BY THE FISH BUG!!"
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[Colin_T]

Hi Wendy

Sorry I forgot to put a smiley face up the top of my post. I was trying to be serious but in a funny way. It doesn't work without the smiley face.

Your ammonia spikes would be from using the erythromycin. It is killing the filter bacteria.

I am not sure if you are just hoovering the gravel or actually pushing it into the substrate. If you push the gravel cleaner into the gravel it will pick up more gunk. Use the gravel cleaner each time you do a water change. Alternatively the gravel can be taken out and washed under tap water. That should make them look a little cleaner. If it doesn't you can boil it or pour some bleach over it. Use bleach without any soaps or detergents added. Swimming pool chlorine works well. Allow it to soak for a couple of minutes then thoroughly wash the gravel under running water. Put the gravel into a bucket of tap water and add a double dose of dechlorinator. Stir the gravel up a bit and then it should be safe to go in the tank.

Unless you are adding new fish to the tank, or using water from another tank with sick fish, you should not be adding any medications to prevent parasites or disease. The coppersafe is not necessary and could be doing more harm than good. Copper is toxic to most things and living in a tank with a constant source of copper can't be good for the fish.

Instead of using Ammolock to control the ammonia just do daily 50% water changes and cut the feeding back. Fish can go for a long time without food and a few days without eating will not harm him. It will however help reduce the ammonia in the tank.

I wouldn't bother using carbon in the tank at all. It isn't really necessary unless you are trying to remove chemicals from the water.

 

[Bignose]

There are actually several different reasons fin rot/fin erosion can occur. Take a look at this document: Latremouille, D.N. 2003. "Fin erosion in aquaculture and natural environments". Reviews in Fisheries Science 11:315–335

It is available for free on the Internet at this link http/wildlife.utah.gov/fes/publications.html go down the page it is the 5th publication listed and available for download in pdf form.

Here's the list of the primary reasons of fin erosion: overcrowding, malnutrition, poor water quality, abrasive surfaces, and bacterial infections. Certainly there is a lot of overlap, i.e. poor water quality leads to a weakened immune system overal then an abrasive surface makes a small cut and allows a bacterial infection to take hold which the weakened immune system struggles to fight off.

Colin is definitely right about the copper. In fact, the levels of copper that are toxic to fish is many times less than the levels of copper that are toxic to people. And Colin is also definitely right about unnecessary medications.

Read through that document I cited above. It has a lot of good info about preventing fin erosion. I think it would help you put this issue to bed.