Need Help/advice

[dollfaced]

I posted a previous board thinking it may be one of the fish fin nipping my angels. But now I wonder if it is fin rot. Do you think this could be fin rot? At one point they started to heal, now on my female angels caudal fin, there's another tear. They just layed eggs last night so I was wondering if it was my male that did it because they were "arguing" when I looked at them this morning. I also found out one fish I have is an asian upside down catfish and I heard it likes to eat fish 3/4 it's size. However it is only 4 inches now and my angels are fully grown. I started my fish on Pimafix two days ago along with Coppersafe because I thought I saw a whitespot on one of my other fish. Is that a good treatment? I also changed the water around 30% a day before I started to treat them.

Currently I have 2 fully grown angels, one male gold gourami, 2 german blue rams, a plecostomus, one upside down catfish, and an asian upside down catfish in a 55 gallon.

Temp 78F
nitrate 30ppm
nitrite 0ppm
hardness between 50-120
alkalinity 180
pH 7.4-7.6

Behaviours
-Angels are fine and active. Not shy of me. Eat when given food. Only thing visibly wrong are the tears.
-Gold gourami is skittish and likes to hide at the bottom near a rock so I can't see him. Periodically comes to top to get air then goes back to hide from me. Eats when food is given but weary of my face. Part of one of his feelers was missing a few days ago.
-Rams are active and eat when given food. More white spots are visible on the male than female (maybe 5) and I only see 1 white spot on the female. They don't flash or rub on anything. Not shy.
-Pleco is normal. Eats his cucumber or algae wafer or food from the top when given. Not shy. Haven't seen anything visibly wrong.
-Upside down cats like to hide until night so I don't see them much.

I had in there also 3 danios and another male gold gourami. I moved those to another tank about a week ago.

Last week

Few days ago

Today

Fish with whitespots

 

[*Fishkies*]

Looks like bacterial fin rot. You'll want to medicate with a bacterial medication. Coppersafe should help get rid of the ich probelm if there is one in your tank. Try treating with Melafix. Melafix and pimafix can be combined, however I'm not sure about it with the Coppersafe.

 

[scooterchick]

With fin nipping you would expect to see the damage heal up pretty quickly, within a couple of days. The damage to your angels is far too extensive to be nipping, it's def fin rot. Chances are if you treat for a baterial infection and make sure the water is top notch, the white spot shold clear up too.

Don't expect a quick fix, fin rot is very difficult to treat, especially in a community tank. Is there any way you could quarantine the Angels? It's a dilemma I know, I guess you could move the danios back in the big tank and put the angels with the gourami until they're treated. So long as your PH and temp is the same in both tanks it's fine to move them.

Keep on with the melafix, it should help repair the damaged tissue. You need to see an improvement soon, in the next day or so, one of those tails is getting dangerously close to the body, once that happens you've past the point of no return.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[dollfaced]

Is it normal for fin rot to heal then rot again then heal again? The pictures are in order of the days I took them.

8/3

8/8

8/10

8/12

8/14

8/17

In the first, she is totally normal. The 2nd-5th they seemed to have healed. And the last is from yesterday overnight. I was watching my angels lay eggs last night and her tail wasn't like that when I was watching. The only odd thing was the male attacked my face when I took a close look. Haha. Over protective B)

I can move my angels to the other tank, however it is only a 20 gal. Will that be ok with my 2 angels and the one gourami, or too small? Also, what could have caused this to happen? I change the water every week or two depending how much I take out. Could it have been from the water from the other fish I've gotten recently? I got ghost shrimp from a lfs and the two upside down cats over a week ago from my godfather but he said he tank was fine and had no diseases. Most of the water was taken out from the bags before I put them in my tank. At that time, I didn't have my other tank so I couldn't quarentine. I never had a problem with my fish before...

So moving the angels and treating the 20 gal with melafix and pimafix should help?

 

[dollfaced]

Here is a chronicle of my male as well

8/3

8/8

8/8

8/14

8/14

8/17

 

[Tolak]

It's fin nipping, probably the pair scuffling a little, which is fairly common. Look at the tail of the fish in the bottom pic in post #5. Look at the notch in the tail, imagine that tail sideways, and look at the mouth of the angel at the other end of the same picture. Nice fit. Redness would be bacterial fin rot, whiteness would be fungal, which more often occurs on top of bacterial. Your fish have neither.

Angels will get more torn up than that when pairing, way more. From what I've seen blacks seem to be the more aggressive fish, I had a black angel lose 2/3 of its fins in less than 10 hours while I was at work. I also have a black pair that battles the couple of days before they spawn, the smaller female looks worse than either of your angels before spawning. Breeding cichlids generally are not show cichlids, and angels are no exception. Keep a divider handy, breeding pairs have been known to kill their mate.

Fresh water is one of the best things for healing fins. Change out 50% every second or third day, and add a little melafix. If they play too rough add the divider between spawns, giving them a chance to heal. This would also explain the damage to the gourami, which to an angel looks enough like another angel to be treated like one, especially to a pair.

 

[dollfaced]

I just took their eggs out that they layed last night. The female was still attacking everything that got near them, the male included. Maybe my rams got whitespot from her trying to chase them? But I saw a spot on the male before they spawned... And yes, my female seems to get beat up more than my male. Last month she looked horrid after spawning. But she recovered from that. Now, it just seems different. My angels never went after the long, thin flowing fins. Maybe they do now? I'm sad and getting confused as to what is happening :\ Should just I change the water every few days like you suggested, use a divider so they can heal, and use coppersafe for the ich? Or do the water change, use divider, and use melafix? Can melafix/pimafix be used at the same time with coppersafe?

I just noticed you live in chicago tolak. You should come cure them (I'm kidding, don't get scared )

 

[Tolak]

Melafix & Pimafix can be used with copper. I would do this, along with the water changes & divider between spawns.

I just noticed you are from Chicago as well, so much for my powers of observation. I'm on the SW side, 1/2 mile outside the city limits, but it is just easier to put Chicago as a location. If you do need a hand by all means contact me, I usually have other aquarists from the club stopping by on a regular basis, another wouldn't be any problem at all.

 

[dollfaced]

Overnight their fins got worse again. The top of my male's fin healed over the passed few days and now it's torn again. On my female, her tail is more frayed and a part of the bottom of it is missing. Last night was too late to buy anything from a fish store because they were closed. Today I took out 10 gallons from my 55 and 5 gallons from my 20 for a water change. I moved my asian upside down cat to my other tank. I guess tonight I'll be staying up all night and watching what goes on with the lights out. I hope no ghosts try to scare me XD Too bad I don't have a video camera for that. I thought I saw my female angel rub against a plant. My gourami did it too. My rams aren't doing that though. That is so nice of you, I may need your help. I'm getting frustrated and more worried I live about 3 miles from downtown. I'm almost directly in the center of Chicago.

Some short videos I took today (Sorry, they're sideways)

male
http/video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2172366624012728024

male and female and my scared gourami (oops)
http/video.google.com/videoplay?docid=911550190730923921

them fighting a little
http/video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1307160948316637289

 

[dollfaced]

Over night I didn't notice anything strange. My angels fins have no new damage. Today I was finally able to aquire a divider. However, the store was out of melafix and I don't know of any fish stores near me besides that one.
I put my angels on one side and the rest of my fish on the other. If more damage happens to my angels then I guess it is them after all. There is no white growths on them so I don't think it's a fungus. But after I put in the divider today, I noticed my 1 1/2" male german blue ram was attacking my male golden gourami. And my gourami was attacking him back in defense. Do you think it could be my ram that's doing it to my angels? Or possibly my gourami? The male ram chases the female ram too.