Need a recommendation for an online vendor

[GaryE]

I'm a fly on the wall - not in the USA. So I have no vested interest or chance to use these resources. But I see a lot of discussion here about different sellers.

I consistently read good things about Wet Spot. Dan's Fish gets mostly good reviews, although there are questions about his prices and debates about how he keeps the fish prior to sales. I'm of the 'if the fish cost that, they cost that' persuasion - I've spent enough time around the rare fish trade here to know good, uncommon fish are expensive to get in.

It seems Imperial Tropicals is mentioned here for more commonly available fish. But I haven't read any critiques. Aquatic Clarity seems good if you want South American fish, which you don't.

I always want to get into the Dutch and German suppliers, but if I were in the US, based on the stocklist and comments here, I'd use the Wet Spot. They are quite a ways west though. Safe shipping might be expensive at this time of year.

 

[Innesfan]

if I were in the US, based on the stocklist and comments here, I'd use the Wet Spot. They are quite a ways west though. Safe shipping might be expensive at this time of year.

It's a flat rate for the entire country, $49.99 except Oregon and Washington state, $39.99

 

[anewbie]

I'm a fly on the wall - not in the USA. So I have no vested interest or chance to use these resources. But I see a lot of discussion here about different sellers.

I consistently read good things about Wet Spot. Dan's Fish gets mostly good reviews, although there are questions about his prices and debates about how he keeps the fish prior to sales. I'm of the 'if the fish cost that, they cost that' persuasion - I've spent enough time around the rare fish trade here to know good, uncommon fish are expensive to get in.

It seems Imperial Tropicals is mentioned here for more commonly available fish. But I haven't read any critiques. Aquatic Clarity seems good if you want South American fish, which you don't.

I always want to get into the Dutch and German suppliers, but if I were in the US, based on the stocklist and comments here, I'd use the Wet Spot. They are quite a ways west though. Safe shipping might be expensive at this time of year.

aquaticclarity also bring in a *lot* of west african cichild many of them very uncommon at other sellers; and from time to time a bunch of killi (though i can't comment on them since i'm not into killi); he is not very good if you want asian fishes (loaches and such) and his selection is more limited.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I should have mentioned that very few of my fish have come from retail suppliers either as a store or an online seller. Most have come from breeders, the better fish farms or from folks whom I trusted to be getting or producing healthy fish and quarantining them before selling them.

But I have softer water and have never owned a single rift lake fish. I have only had one African riverine fish suitable for my water. The only cichlids I have kept are angels and discus. The majority of my fish are from S. America.

I only set up my first tank in Jan. 01 at age 53. Then information online then was a lot less than it is these days but also tended to be more accurate. Today there is more BS than poetry on this subject.

But there are also a lot more people selling fish online. I was lucky to meet a number of folks doing this over the years at weekend events. The problem with such folks is they do not persist over time. Life in the forms if Illness or change in life status i.e. marriage, children, work etc. often interfere. Bear in mind that there was no such thing as the internet much before 1999. Before then it was brick and mortar stores and almost nothing else. I had to get a new PC in late 1998 because Citi Bank moved from direct dial to being online. When I decided finally to get the first tank I had been promising myself I would do for years, I was able to get a lot of helpful info online. Over time I had to figure out what sites were actually worth trusting.

My first weekend event was the 2023 OCA and it taught how to talk with the real pros of the fish keeping world. it is also where I got my only pair of mouth brooders and Arfican fish, Pseudocrenilabrus nicholsi. I wanted to see mouth brooding and Don Ziliox aka Zman (no longer with us) gave me a pair at the event. A perfect example of having met him online and then benefiting from both attending the event. It was his last such event, so I count myself lucky having been able to meet him. Stroes and online sellers might be good but more often may not.

But the many of the people one meets at weekend events or at fish clubs are more valuable assets when it comes to find healthy fish from reliables sources than online reviews or self promotions. If you are able to but never get involved with either of such venues. it is your loss, IMO.

(edited to chnge Thin to Then and for typos)

 

[GaryE]

I should have mentioned that very few of my fish have come from retail suppliers either as a store or an online seller. Most have come from breeders, the better fish farms or from folks whom I trusted to be getting or producing healthy fish and quarantining them before selling them.
the many of the people one meets at weekend events or at fich clubs are more valuable assets when it comes to find healthy fish from reliables sources than online reviews or self promotions. If you are eble to but never get involved with either of such venues. it is your loss, IMO.

This could not be better advice. It takes time, but in this hobby like in any other domain, networking can be important. It won't matter right now for @Greg30329 , who is after a commercially produced species, but in the long run meeting other aquarists is fantastic.

Going to the big national conventions can be too much time and money, especially for younger aquarists with kids. But a local fish club will get you leads on things, as well as fish.

After our local club last evening, I was talking with a newer member who told me he had long had a wishlist of plants and fish he thought he'd never see in our sleepy little city, and in the one auction he had gotten the entire list. He seemed happy, but clearly shocked. He has a month to make a new set of quests!

 

[otterblue]

I can tell you where NOT to go: Arizona Aquatic Gardens. They sent me two fish that died in transit and the replacements were the wrong fish. They couldn't identify the species they sent me but assured me that they would get back with me after the holidays. I haven't heard anything since.

 

[Magnum Man]

I had serious issues with them as well

 

[Innesfan]

I've only bought plants from AZ Gardens but even that transaction was fraught. They have some of the worst on-line customer reviews I've ever read.

 

[jaylach]

I've only bought plants from AZ Gardens but even that transaction was fraught. They have some fo the worst on-line customer reviews I've ever read.

Than why did you use?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I had basically awful experiences with AZ Gardens. This included their sending me Flying Foxes (Epalzeorhynchos kalopterus) as SAEs (Crossocheilus oblongus) which they were not. They sent plants I did not order and left out ones that I did. It took a few to many problems before I realized not to shop with them. That was almost 20 years ago however. So I cannnot speak to how they may be now. I do not care.

I have a great situation for getting plants now. One of the members of my club is a real plant maven. He has 4 or 5 150 gal. tanks all with CO2 added with am great assortment of huge more common plants as well as rare smaller ones. He brings plants to put into every club auction. He also traded me some plants as partial payment of a few of my plecos. Both parties were very happy with what they received.

 

[anewbie]

I've been tempted in the recent years to use az a few times when the have something i've been looking to obtain for along time (plant or fish) but when i do a bit of reasearch before i hit buy button I think better of completing the transaction. You can read not only online reviews (don't look at the number but look at the nature of the review AND who is making the review); then there is always bbb to check (though even it can get review bombed from time to time - but look at the dates of the issues and again the nature of the complaint. Sure it takes 10 minutes but 10 minutes is time well spent.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Just a word of advice from an old man. When it comes to reading customer reviews of any business. For them have value there need to be a decent number of them. This can mean 50 to 1200 as well as many 1,000s. I tend to mistrust any outfit that has 0 bad reviews. Any business wil run into one or more customers who are going to complain and berate whether or not it is deserved. If nothing someone loyal to a competitor or competitors incognito will leave a bad review or two. I also want to most reviewers giving good ratings with no less than 75% in the top 2/5 and preferably more like 85+ I take as a good sign.

But, always beware that even the best of reputations and history of them can turn bad. Owners may have financial issues outside of the business, people get very sick or die, mismanagement can happen. So without a good reason not to do so, You may want to a few smaller order over time and see how any new vendor to you really is.

Also, when we are newbies to the hobby, we need time to learn who the better vendors are and have been for a fair amount of time. Reputaions do matter. I will leave you with one of my favorite sayings when it comes to buying fish shipped to you: "One live healthy fish has to be worth at least 3 DOAS."

 

[Innesfan]

Than why did you use?

I foolishly didn't read the reviews prior to purchase. Perhaps because I wasn't buying fish and 'just' plants.

 

[GaryE]

I will leave you with one of my favorite sayings when it comes to buying fish shipped to you: "One live healthy fish has to be worth at least 3 DOAS."

That's a harsh reality.
I've bought from a store that does a lively online shipping business. It's ten hours by car away. When I've had a reason to buy in person there and bring the fish back myself, I have lost almost no fish - maybe 5% on a bad try (I've done that 3 times). When I first got fish shipped to me (Fed Ex or UPS, overnight) , I used to order in sixes because they had good prices for that number and I generally try to breed the fish to build proper shoals.
But with the shipped fish, I could lose 50% within 2 months of arrival. It affected all groups, but especially the corydoras group the place specialized in. I now order them in groups of 12 (and only in April to June and mid August to October).
In person, these fish are good. When the guy packs them, they're healthy. He packs well. But the shipping system clearly prioritizes fast over careful here. It's another country, but the same general fish. I expect fish to die in shipping, and the need to order more than I want adds to the cost of online shopping.