My Plan For A Breeding Tank?

[Haych]

Right, I have been thinking for a while about breeding bettas, and have been trying without much luck to find a decent spawning tank.

I am currently bidding on a rio 125, which Kev and I came up with this idea (with a little nudge from something Aly said earlier....)

Section A would be where I put the male and female to spawn, section B would be the conditioning area for the female before and after the spawning.

Section C would be a permanent section for another male.

Now, upon the completion of conditioning of the female after the spawn I would remove her from section B and place her back in her own tank.

I would leave daddy to do his stuff then remove him when the babies are free swimming back to his own tank to have a well earned feed.

Once the babies are big enough I would then remove the divider (marked in red) to allow the babies to "grow out" (green section)

Now, my question is this,

Can this be done? would the divider be ok as your standard Aida or would I need to make the holes smaller incase the babies escpae through and evade daddy? or would it need to be similar to the water tight one?

If I think of anything along the way I will add to it!!

Any help appreciated, and opinions welcome too

 

[razer121]

ive got nothing to help but....i do think this is a great idea! and i will be a follower for sure although...im sure i read somewhere that you would need little 2litre tubes for each male betta fry.....otherwise fights can occure but dont quote me on that!

 

[Haych]

that is correct to some extent, you can grow them out and may need to separate if fighting occurs.

some don't need splitting until they're sold - all depends on the individual betta - but i will fully research everything twice over before anything is done ( plus i need to win this tank first! )

 

[razer121]

lol ok, well good luck!! i hope you win the tank as id luv to watch a topic on betta breeding

 

[theshadowinc]

Any help appreciated, and opinions welcome too

Good Idea but 2 problems and a few others along the way with this setup. The water is shared between everyone so if you get infections of any sort (Diseases) such as velvet the fry are done! Lets say day after your female ends up with fin rot sometimes this happens right after spawning them if they fight its now throughout the entire water, breeding tanks need to be kept seperate from adult tanks and clean etc. You really need to go with a smaller tank something like a 10gal and seperate it so you have 2 sections with a divider and put both female and male in on eiather side wait for the bubble nest and lift the divider let the female spawn when the female comes back to her side and you will put the divider back in. The other problem is when the fry become free swimmin they can fit through almost any small hole, no matter the size means in the seperated compartments they can get in, and the water level should only be 4 iches from the bottom during spawning this is another bump in the road how you going to manage that in a tank this size?

Aswome more room means bettas grow faster this isn't true(Food and water changes lots and lots of water changes and lots and lots of live food ie BBS), a 10gal tank will work just fine till about week 4 or so maybe even longer depending on the breeder, a tank this size is used for a female tank to put all females in after week 8 or so and let them finish there maturing, not only that but what are your plans for the males? They do need to be seperated the instinct no matter what can not be bred out of them and there instinct is to kill. The females on the other hand just like to party and go to the bathroom together ummm..... ya..... lol.......

Its a good Idea seperating males its a perfect idea, but looking at a breeding setup meh.... it has its flaws and you don't want any flaws when breeding them. I also hope you took the time to look at the reason why you should be looking at a breeding pair from a local breeder and not from your local fish store. If you need someone to explain this to you, I bet lorachix will be the best person to talk to you about it. You will thank me later for that tip! Not only that knowing you have a F1 or F2 strain is vital when selling them and you will have better luck asking huge price for a f1 or f2 strain than you will one that is lfs baught. Have you figured out what you are going to do for a Brine Shrimp hatchery? and you will need more than 1 Hatchery to help your work load, also you will need good stock of BBS eggs, Vinager Eals... you are near Quebec right?

Some things to consider!

 

[Haych]

who's near Quebec? you taking the michael?

I am in he UK lol

Right, I have had a few thoughts added to this, and I can assure you I am not rushing into anything.

The section C would be a "tank in a tank". It would be made FULLY water tight and would have its own right, it would be blackened off and made with perspex, so he would not be a contaminant to the babies.

So section C would be full with "male 1" (nothing to do with the spawn) and section A and B would be only full for the necessary amount of water whilst the spawn and care for babies is taken care of.

I have come across the issue of them being small enough to fit through the gap, and am thinking of making ANOTHER solid perspex but removeable divider - am just working out the knots for acclimatising the babies when growout is needed.

I do know I will need lots of smaller tanks for the boys, am looking into the ones from Wilkos for this.

I know BBS hatchery and live foods are needed. But please, step one first!!

with the female and male spawn I am thinking of using the tube in the middle method.

I can assure you, this IS NOT something I thought "oooh I want to do" and ran head first into it. I have thought long and hard. The reason I want to use this idea for spawning is so that I also have the grow out tank to hand, easily without distressing the babies too much.

And no, I don't want to use "shop bought fish". Terry was from a breeder, and I am currently nosing through MANY a site to find the perfect female.

and yes, I know it's alot to consider, but it isn't something I haven't already thought about

Have I covered everything?

lol ok, well good luck!! i hope you win the tank as id luv to watch a topic on betta breeding

thanks Razer

I lost out on the other tank, I just can't afford to go any higher this week, but this is still something I am thinking about MASSIVELY. I am going to keep a beady open for a 125 or 180

 

[Gill]

very good design, agree with the changes made to it.
Have you got your supplies for fry food sorted, as the guy i use is excellent and very cheap.

One place I would recommend having a look at is Shirley aquatics nr Coleshill, in the Blooms Garden Centre. The last time i was there, they had lovely males and females.

 

[Haych]

thanks Gill.

Haven't looked into anything to do with food yet, as I have to find a tank first lol

I have been to Shirley many a times, but only ever see VT's, and, my last betta from there brought columinaris back to my whole community tank

will deffo keep you updated

 

[theshadowinc]

who's near Quebec? you taking the michael?

No got you mixed up with someone else hmm....

Right, I have had a few thoughts added to this, and I can assure you I am not rushing into anything.

No harm no foul play intended, only advise I offer its up to you to take it and do what you please

The section C would be a "tank in a tank". It would be made FULLY water tight and would have its own right, it would be blackened off and made with perspex, so he would not be a contaminant to the babies.

thats fine did you think about the thickness of teh glass you are going to use to seperate them fromt the other compartments, when one is full of water and the others are halffull lets say pressure is different on aposing sides. Very good thought.

So section C would be full with "male 1" (nothing to do with the spawn) and section A and B would be only full for the necessary amount of water whilst the spawn and care for babies is taken care of.

See above post, boyles law I think not sure whos law but i think its that one that deals with pressure

[quoteI have come across the issue of them being small enough to fit through the gap, and am thinking of making ANOTHER solid perspex but removeable divider - am just working out the knots for acclimatising the babies when growout is needed. [/quote]
So experienced i see

I do know I will need lots of smaller tanks for the boys, am looking into the ones from Wilkos for this.

What about 1 step further? Look into a mini betta barracks, all depends on how many males you end up with though, it would make it easier on you in the long run and better on the fry, they are constantly in 1 aquarium together but all have seperate homes, the filtration filters all of them seperately, I guess this is a food for thaught, because this would have to be setup at the same time to allow it to cycle, so will depend on how serious you are and how long you want to do this maybe follow a line etc....

I know BBS hatchery and live foods are needed. But please, step one first!!

Many factors to deal with and its always easier to think backward when breeding instead of thinking in the steps forward

with the female and male spawn I am thinking of using the tube in the middle method.

Many methods just pick one that suits you the best, have you thaught about Indian Almond Leaves at all, It might be a good thing since 2 compartments are together sharing the same water, even if its a solid peace of glass that devides it water sill goes around and underneath it, this might just be a secret ingredient to make this setup work, everyone does spawns differently but the show quality ones they all do them the same

I can assure you, this IS NOT something I thought "oooh I want to do" and ran head first into it. I have thought long and hard. The reason I want to use this idea for spawning is so that I also have the grow out tank to hand, easily without distressing the babies too much.

I figured its not something you thaught lets do now... you are posting for opionions and thaughts

And no, I don't want to use "shop bought fish". Terry was from a breeder, and I am currently nosing through MANY a site to find the perfect female.
and yes, I know it's alot to consider, but it isn't something I haven't already thought about

as long as you pick the right path thats all the matters if you are going to do it you might as well take the time and do it right the first time, and do it with something you can profit from as well as the experience you will gain from it. I always tell someone when they say I want to breed this fish, a coin has 2 sides to it and breeding fish is the same way pick a side and flip now go to it! Meaning a bad way about it and a good way about it

Have I covered everything?

Okay I know this would be weird question, but I have to ask why not a normal 10gal tank? and use a bigger one for grow out like a 20 gal with the 10 gal I just find it strange you want to go with such a big tank although seeing what you are planning kinda rings bells onto why

Best of luck with your spawn when the time comes

 

[Haych]

who's near Quebec? you taking the michael?

No got you mixed up with someone else hmm....

no harm done

Right, I have had a few thoughts added to this, and I can assure you I am not rushing into anything.

No harm no foul play intended, only advise I offer its up to you to take it and do what you please

no... I am listening, well reading !

The section C would be a "tank in a tank". It would be made FULLY water tight and would have its own right, it would be blackened off and made with perspex, so he would not be a contaminant to the babies.

thats fine did you think about the thickness of teh glass you are going to use to seperate them fromt the other compartments, when one is full of water and the others are halffull lets say pressure is different on aposing sides. Very good thought.

admittedly that has stumped me, I am thinking of using perspex not glass, but not sure whether to use 5 or 8mm

So section C would be full with "male 1" (nothing to do with the spawn) and section A and B would be only full for the necessary amount of water whilst the spawn and care for babies is taken care of.

See above post, boyles law I think not sure whos law but i think its that one that deals with pressure

as above

I have come across the issue of them being small enough to fit through the gap, and am thinking of making ANOTHER solid perspex but removeable divider - am just working out the knots for acclimatising the babies when growout is needed.

So experienced i see

i don't quite get you on this one....

I do know I will need lots of smaller tanks for the boys, am looking into the ones from Wilkos for this.

What about 1 step further? Look into a mini betta barracks, all depends on how many males you end up with though, it would make it easier on you in the long run and better on the fry, they are constantly in 1 aquarium together but all have seperate homes, the filtration filters all of them seperately, I guess this is a food for thaught, because this would have to be setup at the same time to allow it to cycle, so will depend on how serious you are and how long you want to do this maybe follow a line etc....

you have me piqued, can you tell/show me more please?

I know BBS hatchery and live foods are needed. But please, step one first!!

Many factors to deal with and its always easier to think backward when breeding instead of thinking in the steps forward

I understand that, but I need to know this is something I am going to do for sure

with the female and male spawn I am thinking of using the tube in the middle method.

Many methods just pick one that suits you the best, have you thaught about Indian Almond Leaves at all, It might be a good thing since 2 compartments are together sharing the same water, even if its a solid peace of glass that devides it water sill goes around and underneath it, this might just be a secret ingredient to make this setup work, everyone does spawns differently but the show quality ones they all do them the same

I have a huge bag of almond leaves, I have frogbitt growing in my tank and if I go for this, will invest in sponge filter etc.

I can assure you, this IS NOT something I thought "oooh I want to do" and ran head first into it. I have thought long and hard. The reason I want to use this idea for spawning is so that I also have the grow out tank to hand, easily without distressing the babies too much.

I figured its not something you thaught lets do now... you are posting for opionions and thaughts

and still do

And no, I don't want to use "shop bought fish". Terry was from a breeder, and I am currently nosing through MANY a site to find the perfect female.
and yes, I know it's alot to consider, but it isn't something I haven't already thought about

as long as you pick the right path thats all the matters if you are going to do it you might as well take the time and do it right the first time, and do it with something you can profit from as well as the experience you will gain from it. I always tell someone when they say I want to breed this fish, a coin has 2 sides to it and breeding fish is the same way pick a side and flip now go to it! Meaning a bad way about it and a good way about it

understood

Haych - Have I covered everything?

TSI- Okay I know this would be weird question, but I have to ask why not a normal 10gal tank? and use a bigger one for grow out like a 20 gal with the 10 gal I just find it strange you want to go with such a big tank although seeing what you are planning kinda rings bells onto why

Best of luck with your spawn when the time comes
=============================================================================

Haych - I am thinking along the space side, one tank would be easier on me than a few tanks on the go. Plus if I have smaller tank, I would have to put them upstairs, which I don't want to do because of the leaving the light on, my cats never being shut away from them (they're shut out of the lounge at night) etc. Also convenience, saves having to cycle more than one tank at a time

(ran out of allowed number of quotes!!)

 

[theshadowinc]

The section C would be a "tank in a tank". It would be made FULLY water tight and would have its own right, it would be blackened off and made with perspex, so he would not be a contaminant to the babies.

thats fine did you think about the thickness of teh glass you are going to use to seperate them fromt the other compartments, when one is full of water and the others are halffull lets say pressure is different on aposing sides. Very good thought.

admittedly that has stumped me, I am thinking of using perspex not glass, but not sure whether to use 5 or 8mm

They don't bond that well to glass might want to read up on that

I have come across the issue of them being small enough to fit through the gap, and am thinking of making ANOTHER solid perspex but removeable divider - am just working out the knots for acclimatising the babies when growout is needed.

So experienced i see

i don't quite get you on this one....

You bred bettas before?

I do know I will need lots of smaller tanks for the boys, am looking into the ones from Wilkos for this.

What about 1 step further? Look into a mini betta barracks, all depends on how many males you end up with though, it would make it easier on you in the long run and better on the fry, they are constantly in 1 aquarium together but all have seperate homes, the filtration filters all of them seperately, I guess this is a food for thaught, because this would have to be setup at the same time to allow it to cycle, so will depend on how serious you are and how long you want to do this maybe follow a line etc....

you have me piqued, can you tell/show me more please?

http/209.85.12.234/7305/90/upload/p5425208.jpg

I know BBS hatchery and live foods are needed. But please, step one first!!

Many factors to deal with and its always easier to think backward when breeding instead of thinking in the steps forward

I understand that, but I need to know this is something I am going to do for sure

hmmm.......

And no, I don't want to use "shop bought fish". Terry was from a breeder, and I am currently nosing through MANY a site to find the perfect female.
and yes, I know it's alot to consider, but it isn't something I haven't already thought about

as long as you pick the right path thats all the matters if you are going to do it you might as well take the time and do it right the first time, and do it with something you can profit from as well as the experience you will gain from it. I always tell someone when they say I want to breed this fish, a coin has 2 sides to it and breeding fish is the same way pick a side and flip now go to it! Meaning a bad way about it and a good way about it

understood

Haych - Have I covered everything?

Haych - I am thinking along the space side, one tank would be easier on me than a few tanks on the go. Plus if I have smaller tank, I would have to put them upstairs, which I don't want to do because of the leaving the light on, my cats never being shut away from them (they're shut out of the lounge at night) etc. Also convenience, saves having to cycle more than one tank at a time

Still have alot of researching to do, how are you going to heal the female when done spawning fins might be damge and can't treat in that tank at all, meds will kill fry even your bettafix will kill the fry quicker than they where spawned

Seperate tank for spawning Means Clean
Quartine tank for both Female and Male can be shared you would medicate the same instead of a waterchange you take the betta out and jar or back to its normal home in this case(Matter)
Only need 2 tanks so 2 10 gal would be a small setup isn't this smaller?(go with a betta barracks when the fry get big enough many reasons on why for this)
I think with seperate tanks or non shared water you can do more treat more etc in case of infectin disease what ever happens, mother nature can be mean sometimes.

Maybe some of this will help, I am only giving you advice from a breeders point, someone who has done it many many times. Will this be permanent or just a 1 time thing?
I also must ask this are you keen on your diseases for betta's, spotting them in fry is not easy I have lost many batches do to parasites and other things unknown, usually later on I figure it out especially if its in the water. But are you keen on the basics of this, you really need to be searching at the last min to save your fry is a no fault fry die!

 

[Haych]

Thanks for the info.

No, I haven't bred before, and Its not I don't want to, I just want to ensure I CAN do it safely for the fish.

Them betta barracks, how do you heat and filter? I do NOT have the space for something that big

With regards to healing the female after I was hoping to try and avoid meds, but if I have to I do have a small tank I can use as hospital tank.

and yes, 2 10gal IS smaller, but it's about where I can put TWO tanks not one. (I have one gap and one extension spot left - I won't use an extension on an extension)

and yes, I will be researching (more) but just looking at what tank set up to have

 

[aly_starh]

Just for the record

I only said that a tank less than 10G, but more than 5G can be used.

 

[Haych]

i know i just wanted to try this way to see if it would be easier

but the idea i got from you was the removable divider

 

[theshadowinc]

Thanks for the info.
No, I haven't bred before, and Its not I don't want to, I just want to ensure I CAN do it safely for the fish.

No problem

Them betta barracks, how do you heat and filter? I do NOT have the space for something that big

Just like a regular sump design. You have a sump, with the heater in it, a pump pumps water to each container or aquarium and a overflow brings the water back to the sump. Keeps it filtered and heated although there are things you need to know before attempting the design, as in how many containers how big the containers is how much water the system holds, what the temp is set to for the flow rate design etc. There is some planning involved and its not that big of a system, you can use anywhere from .5-1gal containers something like beanie baby containers for the tanks as this would be ideal for grow out to house all those males or all of them individually.

With regards to healing the female after I was hoping to try and avoid meds, but if I have to I do have a small tank I can use as hospital tank.

If you are using wilds or F1''s usually meds are not needed unless finrot sets in, only thing you need to do really is water changes daily, what I do is usually jar the female in a 1 gallon aquarium then 2 water changes a day till fins are restored you should see improvement in 2 days or so if not then thats when I normally med for the finage to help the healing, usually wilds and F1's heal pretty quick compared to your LFS strains

and yes, 2 10gal IS smaller, but it's about where I can put TWO tanks not one. (I have one gap and one extension spot left - I won't use an extension on an extension)

Don't understand this, this tank don't it take up more room compared to 2 10 gal tanks?

and yes, I will be researching (more) but just looking at what tank set up to have

What I would recommend if you understand the breeding aspect of it, would be to research strains and how genes work