My Bettas Keep Dying

Mauricia

Fish Crazy
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A couple weeks ago my favorite girl got sick, she lost her appetite, her fins clamped up a little she became lethargic, started just hanging around at the surface with rapid breathing. (In that order) Finally, she started to dart around insanely in like 2 minute spasms, and then fall to the bottom looking completely unconscious. She would then have another spasm. It looked kind of like she was having a seizure. I treated her with antibacterial meds but I started the treatment only about an hour before the spasms started and she died quickly afterward, so if it was an appropriate treatment I think it was too late. This all happened over the course of about 24 hours.

Then my plakat boy displayed the same symptoms. I treated him with Maracyn 1 & 2. He quickly got better. A few days later he showed the same symptoms again. This time I tried treating him for internal parasites because I'd read about fish getting better after treating with antibiotics then getting worse again and it turning out to have been parasites. Used jungle parasite clear. About 30 hours later he started spazzing just like the girl, froze and dropped dead.

When I say they're having seizures I mean it looks completely involuntary, they're body looks like its being pulled in every direction rapidly. And then they freeze, paralyzed and fall to the bottom. They crash violently into things when they're thrashing about. It's so awful to watch.

The water is clean. Today there was a nitrite spike in the plakats tank but I got it back down to 0 and I think the meds must have killed off the bacteria that turns nitrite to nitrate and left the ammonia -> nitrite bacteria intact.

Shared Symptoms:
Lethargy, rapid breathing, anorexia, listlessness (don't respond to any stimuli), seizures, death.

Girl only: Red, inflamed gills, gill plates not closing. Hung near surface. I think he gills have always been open though, but not that inflamed.

Boy only: Poop brown with one little segment of clear, don't know if this is normal or a sign of disease. I usually only see the poop on the bottom and it looks all brown, I don't know if a segment (maybe an eighth of the poo) being clear is bad. Had some rips in his fins that weren't there before he got sick. I don't know if this is from the seizures and caught it on things or from the nitrite spike or what.

Please help me I'm very distressed! :(

Edit:
Both tanks were 5.5 gallon, 80 degrees, filtered, cycled, ph:9, both fish had the whole tank to themselves. All of my bettas are in the same tanks. I got them each their own bucket and siphon this week so I won't spread disease in the future, but for now I have to assume the other fish could still catch this, only the bettas though. The community tank is downstairs and there's no chance of cross contamination.

Also: I had two other fish (platies) die with similar symptoms about 6 months ago. Is there anything that could be killing them off so slowly.
 
Hmm. First off, I see your pH is literally the highest i have ever heard of fish living in. Could that have 'gottento them' over long-term exposure?

My second suspicion is that something toxic like Windex or Pledge was sprayed/misted near the tank. Could this be a possibility?
 
Actually I meant 8, typo. Or 8-ish. It's a muddy yellow on the API test kit, looks like 7.9?
 
I don't know for sure but even at 7.9, and definately 8ish, still seem like a high pH for Bettas.
 
Yeah, but most people on the three forums I go to told me it was fine and that they would adjust. They were bred locally or in other places with high pH. The three that I have from Thailand I keep in RO water/tap water mix. The majority of my bettas live to be 4+ years. I accept that the high pH is not the best and may weaken their immune system and shorten life span, but there is no way the pH made my two bettas get sick like that. Plus the two platies had the same symptoms and 8 is not too high for a platy.

Edit: As for windex/pledge: There's only one window in the room that they're in and I'm not going to lie I've never cleaned it. So it's very unlikely that any cleaning stuff got in the tank. It's in my bedroom and I've never really use any cleaning supplies other than a vacuum.
 
There showing signs of ph shock to gill flukes.

How long have the fish been kept in a ph of 9.

Signs of skin and gill flukes are.

Opaque body with excess slime.
Red inflamed gills, bleeding gills, pale gills with excess slime.
Flicking and rubbing.
Darting or erratic swimming.
Laboured breathing or gasping at surface of tank.
Fish will swim in a jerky movment.
Sores or red pin prick marks on fish body.
Spitting food out.
Weigtloss.
Flukes also cause bacterial infections.
Parasites can also cause spasms when there infested with them.


If the poop is brown, It's not sounding like internal parasites.
 
Take a look here to see what you think.
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Lawler_some_signs_of_sick_fish.html

never know a fish to go skinny with ph shock. As they don't last that long.
 
No no, the pH is 7.8 not 9! It was a typo.
If their poop looks normal is it pretty likely that they are parasite free?
I treated with the parasite clear which claims to kill flukes, is it just not strong enough? Would it be bad for my other fish to just treat them for flukes even if they're not showing symptoms yet?
 
Oh and the fish that died have been in a pH of around 7.8-8 their whole lives, I know both the people that bred them. So I don't think it's pH shock. I could see the pH weakening their immune systems, but I don't think they would suddenly get so ill if it was the same as always. But yeah, I read that link, and the toxin one sounds similar to how they're acting, but I just can't think of how any toxins could get in their tanks. I don't even use hair spray, windex, anything like that. There's never been any cleaning product used on any of their stuff other than bleach which I was careful to neutralize and leave to dry for a few days.
Thanks for your help though!
Oh and the flukes... well my only thing is it seems like they had way fewer apparent symptoms than the symptoms described for gill flukes. But I guess if they have enough of the symptoms I can accept it, I'm certainly not a veterinarian. I just don't want to expose the other fish to drugs if it's not necessary, but would you treat your other fish if there was a good chance of cross contamination?
 
Some flukes are eye layers so the med will only kill the adults.
You have to keep retreating to kill the young as they hatch.
Flukes are quite hard to get rid of so need to redose treatment.
Also flukes cause bacterial infections, so you have to also back up with medicated food, or a bacterial med.

If one fish has flukes you treat the whole tank.
If you have more than one tank make sure you are steralising equpiment after use, and wash hands also.
 
Also want to make sure that you had no road works going off down your road, or bad weather.


Red gills can be lack of aeration, bacterial gill rot, bad water quality, gill flukes.
 
Ok thank you!
Only one of the fish that died had red gills though, and all of my current fish's gills look normal. Do flukes always cause red gills, or could it still be flukes even without the red gills?
 
My PH is about 6.4 and my betta survived for about 3 weeks but, when i took a water sample to my local aquatics shop they said it didn't die of PH. Ideal PH for a betta is 4 But They said mine should not have died in water as soft as that. Your PH is way too high for soft water fish like betta's.
 
All of the information I've been able to find says that a pH of 6-7 is ideal but they can adapt to other pH. A higher pH would be more of a problem for a betta that was raised in very soft water and then switched to hard water, than a betta that was bred in harder water. Most of my bettas live to be 4+ years, so I'm not going to stress about it too much since I'm not trying to breed them or anything. When I have enough money, I'll get an R/O filter, but I'm not going to use some unsafe method to lower my pH that will just cause more problems. My water is hard so the only safe way to lower the pH would be to use an R/O filter. There is bogwood, coconut shells, plants and IAL in all of their tanks and it doesn't change the pH more than from 8.0 to 7.7-7.8 so I would really need an R/O filter.
 

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