Murky Water? Stressed Damsel?

[blabadie]

We (MadCatter and myself) just recently set up our first saltwater tank. It is small (10 gallons) and is still being cycled. We got some used water from the fish store to speed the cycling process, as well as have 3 damsels and a marble molly (temporary, again, to cycle). There is also about 5 lbs of live rock, and we're still building. Our concern currently is that the water seems very murky. If you look closely, it looks like there is a cloud of smoke being blown around the tank. Is this natural for a newer tank? Will it eventually cycle out?


Secondly, the Sergeant Major is breathing very heavily. It has been doing this all day (unfortunately, I can't say whether it has always done this or not, this is just the first time we've really noticed), and is still swimming/eating/responding fine, but none of the other fish seem to breathe this heavily. There is no air pump in the water, but there is an external filter and two power heads. Could it be that the damsel is still lacking air, or that this fish just naturally breathes this heavily?


Attached is a photo of the water (the SM up in the top right )

link to tank photo (in case image doesn't show up on page)

 

[sianeds]

We got some used water from the fish store to speed the cycling process, as well as have 3 damsels and a marble molly (temporary, again, to cycle).

Secondly, the Sergeant Major is breathing very heavily. It has been doing this all day (unfortunately, I can't say whether it has always done this or not, this is just the first time we've really noticed), and is still swimming/eating/responding fine, but none of the other fish seem to breathe this heavily. There is no air pump in the water, but there is an external filter and two power heads. Could it be that the damsel is still lacking air, or that this fish just naturally breathes this heavily?

The poor fish is breathing heavily because YOU'RE KILLING IT.

A FISHLESS cycle is just as quick and effective and it doesn't murder innocent fish.

How much research have you done into keeping a marine tank? Have you done any research into keeping a marine nano tank??

I hope for the damsels sake he dies quickly as the damage done to it being kept in a cycling tank will never be undone.

You really can't rush a SW tank or you'll just kill every single thing in it.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah i'm sad to say sianeds is probably right.

what are your water stats?

 

[MadCatter]

Unable to get stats currently, as I am in a different location.

None of the other fish have expressed any sort of stress (I know I know, that doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong, just throwing that out there). And the water is about half cycled store water, with 5 lbs live rock. We've done research, and plan on waiting a month or two before changing to the fish we want to keep permanently. It wasn't our intent to hurt anything - a fish store employee that I've trusted (I've obviously never had to do marine before, but they have just as large of a saltwater setup as freshwater), said that the damsels would be safe to throw in there at the start of the tank.

I'll get the tank stats as soon as I can, but it will probably take a couple days.


Also - Any idea on the murky water without me listing tank stats? If it's caused by something dangerous, I'd like to correct it as soon as possible, if it's just going to sort itself out, I'd like not to worry so much.

 

[SkiFletch]

Murky water is typically the cause of either a calcium/alkalinity/magnesium imbalance or just dirty liverock/sand from their introduction into the tank. Either way, the solution is patience and water changes

 

[blabadie]

Since adding an air pump, the water has cleared up tremendously (no murkiness whatsoever) and the SM is breathing normally. I'm thinking there was just a lack of oxygen + the particles in the water that made it harder for the fish to breathe (but what do I know?)

 

[SkiFletch]

Since adding an air pump, the water has cleared up tremendously (no murkiness whatsoever) and the SM is breathing normally. I'm thinking there was just a lack of oxygen + the particles in the water that made it harder for the fish to breathe (but what do I know?)

What you had was lack of gas exchange leading to high CO2, low O2 and therefore low pH. The low pH was causing calcium carbonate to precipitate out into the water column and appeared cloudy to you. How many powerheds do you have in the tank and are any pointed at the surface? Low flowrate would account for poor gas exchange

 

[MadCatter]

Since adding an air pump, the water has cleared up tremendously (no murkiness whatsoever) and the SM is breathing normally. I'm thinking there was just a lack of oxygen + the particles in the water that made it harder for the fish to breathe (but what do I know?)

What you had was lack of gas exchange leading to high CO2, low O2 and therefore low pH. The low pH was causing calcium carbonate to precipitate out into the water column and appeared cloudy to you. How many powerheds do you have in the tank and are any pointed at the surface? Low flowrate would account for poor gas exchange

There is one at the top right of the tank (tilted slightly up, but if it goes up anymore, it will cause water to form on the hood and leak out of the tank), and one at the bottom left, as well as a filter hanging on the back. The bubbler is still in the tank as well.


Thanks for the scientific description Makes sense and is helpful Could we possibly just keep the bubbler in?

 

[SkiFletch]

Well you CAN keep the airstone in there, but they cause issues with salt creep longterm. What is the flowrate capacity of the powerheads and how big is the tank?

The situation you've described is easily and I'm probably 95% sure represented by what I posted above. The question is, how did you get to such a gas exchange imbalance. I'm tempted to blame lack of turnover but there could be other reasons. Have you put anything odd into the aquarium lately? Also what is your fish load like?

 

[MadCatter]

I'm thinking we're in need of a more powerful powerhead (ironically, I own one, but it's an 8 hour drive away).


You actually discussed the powerheads that we have with my other half (who happened to be on my account ) in the Hardware forum


Since that post however, there are three 1" damsels, and the molly mentioned that are in the tank. I'm thinking the molly needs to go, but we haven't been able to do much with the tank over the last couple of days do to school/work/etc. I plan on getting some more used water from the local fish store tonight to help the cycling process as well.


Our live rock is all cured as well. Would adding a more powerful powerhead to the tank (or just replacing one of the smaller ones with the larger one) help?

 

[SkiFletch]

Absoloutely would help. Remember, gas exchange in most marine tanks takes place as a result of water moving. Faster water movement = better gas exchange. In freshwater, Oxygen is plentiful because there aren't many ions dissolved in solution, leaving lots of "room" chemically for oxygen to dissolve (simplistic but good for concept). In saltwater, the solution is jam-packed with salt, calcium, carbonate, magnesium, iron, etc leaving very little chemical "room" for oxygen to dissolve. As a result, the water needs to be pushed around to prevent local problems of low O2 high CO2.

Adequate flowrate is more important than lighting or even filtration, cause with no flow, you're not gonna keep a tank alive for long

 

[MadCatter]

Thanks for the info Maybe I can get my parents to ship out the powerhead that's hanging out in their basement.