Mulm Wanted

[craynerd]

Guys,

I have been setting my tank up now for what seems like forever.

I am finally ready to start next Monday or Tuesday i am just short of Mulm.

After waiting for a tank, planning it all out and waiting for deliveries for months on end, i thought the last thing i would be short of, is someone to give me some mulm.

Yet it seems not like me, not many people bin their filter floss every week and change it, instead you all wash it!

I cant find any mulm anywhere, my LFS has been great with me and i feel to cheeky to ask.

****Get the tiny violins out***

You know i have been trying my hardest to get this ADA tank up and running, and i would really appreciate it if someone could help me jump this last hurdle.

Any donations welcome. Overall, i need half a cup full.

(Sorry, i have posted in the wanted as well, but doubt i`ll get a response:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=150677)

Regards

Chris

 

[madcaow]

huhuh mulm. i had no idea what that was.

what a funny name.

good luck on your quest!

 

[zig]

Chris im not sure if there is any point in anybody posting some to you because the bacteria in it would be dead when it arrived, or maybe i missing something here, but i thought it had to be live or recently transferred from a filter. What sort of filter have you got? i get a lot each time i clean my 2215 filter which i clean every 2 months.

 

[craynerd]

Well zig, i considered this idea, but i am sure the bacteria would be resiliant enough to survive a few days in postage.

I got told you can make mulm by blending up old dead leaves and then putting an air pump through it on a window sill for a few weeks.

So, no, i recon it would survive. But agree, you could very well be right!

Chris

 

[Bloo]

As I said over in your other thread in the buy/sell section - the beneficial bacteria starts to die off within a matter of hours at an exponential rate once it doesn't have fresh water flowing over it. That's why so many people panic when their electricity goes off for a few hours.
Another factor that kills them off really fast, is temperature changes. So it's not going to work I'm afraid

 

[craynerd]

Hi bloo,

I really didn`t know this. Where did you source your facts and information?

Chris

 

[Bloo]

There's a wealth of information if you do a quick google on "nitrifying bacteria".

Just a couple to prove that many factors (such as temperature and lack of oxygen constantly will cause it to die). That process starts from the minute that stable environment changes - and progresses exponentially.

Nitrifying Bacteria Facts

None of the Nitrobacteraceae are able to form spores. They have a complex cytomembrane (cell wall) that is surrounded by a slime matrix. All species have limited tolerance ranges and are individually sensitive to pH, dissolved oxygen levels, salt, temperature, and inhibitory chemicals. Unlike species of heterotrophic bacteria, they cannot survive any drying process without killing the organism. In water, they can survive short periods of adverse conditions by utilizing stored materials within the cell. When these materials are depleted, the bacteria die.

Nitrification - at the heart of filtration

Denitrification and dissimilation are parts of another natural process that converts nitrate to atmospheric nitrogen gas. This process only occurs in the absence of oxygen. The first stage is dissimilatory nitrate reduction which reverses the nitrification process and converts nitrate (NO3-) back to nitrite (NO2-). The second stage of denitrification converts nitrite to nitric oxide, nitrous oxide and finally nitrogen gas – all of these last three products are gases that can be released into the atmosphere

NO3- → NO2- → NO → N2O → N2

It is possible to utilize this process in aquarium tanks and build denitrifying filters to remove nitrate, however, for a variety of reasons, one being the need for a constant organic carbon source, it is not practical for ponds.

The down side is that under low oxygen conditions, this process can occur naturally in a filter - especially one full of decomposing organic matter, resulting in nitrite being fed back into the system. Such a situation could and does readily happen when circumstances are right (or wrong depending which way you look at it!)

Nitrogen Cycle

The sensitive nitrifiers. These "chemotrophic" bacterial metabolisms that "eat" nitrogen operate at reduced efficiency when conditions aren't to their liking. Nitrifying bacteria are affected by several factors, including oxygen, warmth and pH.
Nitrifiers require more oxygen than the "ordinary" metabolism of aerobic bacteria--— the kind that metabolize organic carbon. The efficiency of this nitrifying bacterial metabolism depends on large water surfaces exposed to oxygen. ................

The nitrification process demands a lot of oxygen, more than familiar cellular respiration.

Hope that helps a bit

 

[plantbrain]

Mulm=> that flith you get that's in the gravel that you vacuum out, filter sponge squeezings etc.

You can also do fishless cycling, I found a way that is useful to use it in a planted tank.
You run a filter hoses in/out of a small bucket with lots of NH4 added and wait 2 weeks to use.
This gets the filters all prep'ed without dealing with NH4 in the main tank ever.

Hey, how do like the California weather there?
97F in London. That's cool day where I live.
We are at 104F right now and it'll still climbing.
That's normal here though.

Suppose to be 114F Sat.
That's 45 C.
South of here in death Valley, 130+F every year, that's 55C.


Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[k.o.d]

Mulm is fish poo.
Nitrifying bacteria start to die off in about 2 - 6 hours dependent on the oxygen levels in the water.
by the time the Post Office have finished with your mulm any beneficial effects will have been lost.
Mulm is excellent plant fertiliser but not so hot for cycling tanks

Steve

 

[zig]

Mulm=> that flith you get that's in the gravel that you vacuum out, filter sponge squeezings etc.

You can also do fishless cycling, I found a way that is useful to use it in a planted tank.
You run a filter hoses in/out of a small bucket with lots of NH4 added and wait 2 weeks to use.
This gets the filters all prep'ed without dealing with NH4 in the main tank ever.

Hey, how do like the California weather there?
97F in London. That's cool day where I live.
We are at 104F right now and it'll still climbing.
That's normal here though.

Suppose to be 114F Sat.
That's 45 C.
South of here in death Valley, 130+F every year, that's 55C.


Regards,
Tom Barr

Well where i am in Ireland we had a record temperature yesterday, the hottest day in a decade, and wait for it...............it was a wimpy 31 C, but for over here thats very hot, we rarely get the higher temperatures that London will get, but long may it last, the weather this summer has been fantastic so far. Nice filter tip Tom, thanks for that, never heard that one before.

 

[plantbrain]

We did this filter squeezing and adding old substrate muck to any new tank we had at the LFS when I was a kid, I thought everyone did this to their new tanks if they had another near by.

We often would sell old mature filters, media etc to new customers at the LFS I worked as a kid.
The bacteria will die off if you do not keep it happy and have plenty of O2 available.

I use to dry the mulm, then it was still useful as a carbon source for bacteria(they do not live solely on N alone after all, they are hetrotrophes, they need their carbs just like us!) and for fertilization of the plants.

As far as cycling, well, in a planted tank?
Muhhaha

Plants use NH4 and NO3 both.
So they CAN remove the NH4 before it's converted to NO2 and NO3.
The issue is that many folks that start new tanks do not add enough plants, so there's not enough NH4 uptake or they do not have enough CO2 for their light levels so the plants do not grow and then, they no longer remove much NH4.

They also do not produce as much O2 whick can also help the bacteria to grow better as well and the roots pump(healthy roots that is) pump O2 into the gravel and help sustain the bacteria there as well.

But.........plants are the main players here, we grow plants, bacteria are secondary player, we really are not trying to grow bacteria too much in a planted tank, we generally let them fend for themselves and they much reduced populations in well run planted tanks, many do not use filters at all for this reason, although I've found having a filter avoids algae and other issues should you not pay good attenmtion to the plants over time.

So I think bacteria as a back up, packing a tank from the start(plants are loaded with bacteria on their roots and leaves etc are great ideas and make life much easier.

If you try this, you'll see for yourself.

Regards,
Tom Barr