Moved House & Filter Media Question

[silverchild23]

Right, just a bit of background first:

Tank: 240L Juwel Rio, Eheim Pro Filter, Sand Substrate, Two Air Pumps, Medium Planted.
Fish: 2x Angel, 4x Keyhole, 1x Bristlenose Pleco, 3x Cardinal Tetra, 5x Rummynose Tetra, 1x Blue Ram

We've just moved house, and paid a chap from our local lfs to move the tank for us (took alot of stress out of the move - I can tell you!), however - two weeks on and strange things are happening to the tank.

Over the last two days 1 cardinal tetra and 2 rummynose tetra have died with no apparent symptoms, and checking the stats yesterday it seems we have a small amount of ammonia in the tank (0.25).

All other stats seem fine (temp 26C, pH 7.5, Nitrate 40, Nitrite 0) and this is the first time since having the tank (over 1 1/2 years) that there's been any signs of Ammonia. It's certainly only occured in the last few days if anything and I do a 30% water change every week (although I haven't done a water change since the move so the fish aren't too stressed). But -however, it's got me worried about my filter media...

It is also worth mentioning that in the move we got the guy to change our substrate from black and white fine shingle to sand (Argos play sand). I said that I wanted to place the old substrate in one of my girlfriend's tights in the water so that the bacteria could colonise again, but he said that I'd have minimal bacteria in my substrate anyway - so we threw the old media.

I have an Eheim Pro external cannister filter, and it's the filter media inside that I'm worried about. With some of the bacteria gone in the move from the substrate I'm thinking that the filter media is not working to its full capacity or that the filter media I've got in there is wrong. Currently I have what looks like two layers of mechanical media (both trays are full of 'hula hoop' shape media (this is what I got when I bought the tank) - does this mean they're both mechanical? I'm afraid I cannot remember the names or variety that I bought.

If this is the case and I do have two layers of mechanical, does that mean the filter is not doing anything essentially? Can a filter function without biological media?

I'm just concerned as I don't want my fish to die (and I'm worried that before I moved most of the bacteria may have been in the substrate) - can anybody offer me some advice?

Many thanks

 

[jarcher1390]

Should never have thrown the old media away sound like to me you re cycling the tank with the new media, The guy was right the sand will have minimal bacteria but it would of help a lil when changing the media.
Hope i haven't missed anything essential but sound like your cycling your tank agian
Jonny

 

[silverchild23]

Should never have thrown the old media away sound like to me you re cycling the tank with the new media, The guy was right the sand will have minimal bacteria but it would of help a lil when changing the media.
Hope i haven't missed anything essential but sound like your cycling your tank agian
Jonny

We only threw the old substrate, none of the filter media. Thanks for the advice, do you really think it was possible that there was that much bacteria in the substrate that the filter won't be able to cope with the new substrate?

So do I now need to do daily water changes to keep this down?

What about the filter? Surely it must have some bacteria in it? Or have I got the wrong media in there? Please help!

 

[jarcher1390]

just keep checking your levels and do a water change accordingly. if the filter cannot cope it will need to establish more bacteria so more ammonia is needed for the grown of the bacteria colony.
Jonny

 

[silverchild23]

Thanks Jonny

If my filter media is indeed mechanical and mechanical would that seriously detriment the way it works? That's a question to anybody.

Thanks!

 

[Inchworm]

Hi silverchild23

It must have been great to be able to hire someone to move your tank. It's a hard job to do, especially when you are moving all your other possessions too. Were you with the person who moved it the entire time?

I'm thinking it might have been that your filter was exposed to air or set in a bucket without water flowing through it for some time. Or perhaps it might have been rinsed out in tap water. Did you move to an area that uses chloramine instead of chlorine and use a water conditioner that only removes the chlorine? These things would effect the beneficial bacteria in your tank.

I wouldn't worry about losing any bacteria in the substrate. Beneficial bacteria reproduces itself quickly and the loss of it wouldn't matter. (I'm rearranging some tanks and there's an empty 30 gallon in my living room right now, just waiting for me to clean the old sand out and set it up again.)

Most of the beneficial bacteria lives in the filter because to thrive, it needs a constant flow of water passing it by for oxygen and food. The substrate has very little water movement, so less beneficial bacteria can live there. What might be in it will only reside close to the surface.

If this is the case and I do have two layers of mechanical, does that mean the filter is not doing anything essentially? Can a filter function without biological media?

Let me briefly explain about the kinds of filtration the media is used to do. First, and most important, is bacterial filtration. For this, the media must only provide lots of surfaces for the bacteria to cling to. The more surface area there is, the more bacteria can potentially live in it. Common filter floss (which has lots and lots of surfaces) does this job well, but the lfs sell fancy products that also work but cost more money.

Then there is mechanical filtration. This is the physical removal of debris from the water. All this means is that the water flows through some kind of media and dirt gets stuck in there.

There is also chemical filtration which is not necessary unless you are removing medication or have some other specific use for carbon.

The bacteria doesn't know that it's supposed to live on one part of the media and let the dirt get lodged in the other, so as long as both are the same as what you had in your old home, you should have just about the same number of bacteria, distributed the same way, providing they all arrived safely.

Beneficial bacteria can reproduce itself quickly, even doubling its numbers in a day, so it the tank was moved two weeks ago it should have gone back to normal by now, or at least showed signs of trouble before now.

 

[silverchild23]

Hi silverchild23

It must have been great to be able to hire someone to move your tank. It's a hard job to do, especially when you are moving all your other possessions too. Were you with the person who moved it the entire time?

I'm thinking it might have been that your filter was exposed to air or set in a bucket without water flowing through it for some time. Or perhaps it might have been rinsed out in tap water. Did you move to an area that uses chloramine instead of chlorine and use a water conditioner that only removes the chlorine? These things would effect the beneficial bacteria in your tank.

I wouldn't worry about losing any bacteria in the substrate. Beneficial bacteria reproduces itself quickly and the loss of it wouldn't matter. (I'm rearranging some tanks and there's an empty 30 gallon in my living room right now, just waiting for me to clean the old sand out and set it up again.)

Most of the beneficial bacteria lives in the filter because to thrive, it needs a constant flow of water passing it by for oxygen and food. The substrate has very little water movement, so less beneficial bacteria can live there. What might be in it will only reside close to the surface.

If this is the case and I do have two layers of mechanical, does that mean the filter is not doing anything essentially? Can a filter function without biological media?

Let me briefly explain about the kinds of filtration the media is used to do. First, and most important, is bacterial filtration. For this, the media must only provide lots of surfaces for the bacteria to cling to. The more surface area there is, the more bacteria can potentially live in it. Common filter floss (which has lots and lots of surfaces) does this job well, but the lfs sell fancy products that also work but cost more money.

Then there is mechanical filtration. This is the physical removal of debris from the water. All this means is that the water flows through some kind of media and dirt gets stuck in there.

There is also chemical filtration which is not necessary unless you are removing medication or have some other specific use for carbon.

The bacteria doesn't know that it's supposed to live on one part of the media and let the dirt get lodged in the other, so as long as both are the same as what you had in your old home, you should have just about the same number of bacteria, distributed the same way, providing they all arrived safely.

Beneficial bacteria can reproduce itself quickly, even doubling its numbers in a day, so it the tank was moved two weeks ago it should have gone back to normal by now, or at least showed signs of trouble before now.

Hi Inchworm

Many thanks for the detailed info - I'm afraid biology / chemistry was never my strongpoint, so when I received my filter second-hand on purchase with the tank without intructions I was rather bemused to say the least.

I stayed with the guy as much as I could, and he seemed to do a really good job. He kept the filter submerged in tank water the whole 4 or so hours between houses (we had some trouble getting the keys!) but I don't think the water was flowing through. He also kept the fish in a bucket with an air pump in it.

Only thing is, obviously in the time it took for the move the temperature dropped considerably, perhaps by 10C or so. He said the fact that he'd put all the tank water in buckets meant that both the water and the fish would drop temperature at the same rate, meaning when they were put back they wouldn't be shocked.

It seemed to work ok, and there were no casualties on the day. In fact the only casualties were the most recent with the tetra deaths. However, I wonder if the temp drop may have killed some of the bacteria in the filter? What do you think?

So the mech stuff (the 'tubes') - would the bacteria be able to thrive on this too? I guess they have really good surface area so I don't see why they shouldn't. Is there anything I can do to boost the bacteria whilst keeping the fish as healthy as possible?

Many thanks for any help you can give.

PS. I just bought some Nutrafin 'Cycle' from another LFS on their recommendation. Will this help the bacteria colonise again?

 

[Inchworm]

Hi silverchild23 :0

By now your bacteria level should have stabilized without the use of any product. I mentioned the dechlorinator since it's possible something is killing off your beneficial bacteria at this point. It sounds like the guy who moved you did all he could to keep them well.

Yes, the bacteria should be able to live in/on the mechanical stuff too. Any surface that gets good water circulation will do.

Since I'm not familiar with your brand of filter, I would suggest you ask specific questions about supplies for it, in the Hardware section:

http/www.fishforums.net/category/9/Hardw...Do-It-Yourself/

Just remember, if you do make changes, that you don't want to throw good bacteria away until you are sure they can reproduce themselves promptly on new media. Normally this is not a big problem.