Mixing Africans And South Americans

[tenohfive]

I'm in the process of setting up a 3ft dwarf cichlid tank, and owing to the high pH of my tank (between 7.4 - 8.0) I've opted for a few that are pretty comfortable in those conditions. I'll be setting the tank up with sand, a multi cave rock feature, small terracotta pots, 2 or 3 pieces of bogwood and a planted area with java fern. I've tried to go for a reasonable compromise between the needs of the Africans and South Americans. I'm aiming to create a number of small territories that can be colonised as suits each species and have picked species that whilst territorial, aren't too aggressive.

The ones I'm looking at now are listed below:

Africans
Neolamprologus brichardi - Fairy cichlid
Neolamprologus multifasciatus - Shell dweller

South Americans
Apistogramma cacatuoides - Cockatoo apisto
Nannacara anomala - Golden eye dwarf cichlid

I've got the luxury of room in other tanks if anything goes wibble but wondered what the more experienced cichlid keepers thought?
I've cross posted in African cichlids as well to try and get a balanced opinion.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Chris

 

[bricko]

I doubt that cacatoides will do well in a high PH (never have for me) but you never know.

Hope all goes for you.

 

[kj23502]

Diet aside there is still aggression, the biggest problem with mixing aggressive fish that live in different areas is that they can't read each others signals. Species that live together in nature develop certain signals to communicate with each other, when you mix together fish that don't occur together they can't read each other, so a signal to "leave me alone" for one group won't work with another. This can lead to a lot of chasing and stress, and the important thing to remember with Malawis (and most aggressive cichlids), they can quickly go from tolerant to mass murder.

All that aside, part of the joy of fish keeping is trying out different setups, so as long as you observe closely, have a back up plan, and don't become angry if it doesn't work, I say go for it.

Just thought I'd quote that for you.
I'm not one that would mix from different continents. To me, it just seems unnatural.

 

[tenohfive]

People mix fish from different continents in any normal community tank - I think the biggest reason africans and south americans aren't mixed is a) because most of them require different water conditions and environments and b) their character. I've put some thought into it and don't see why it wouldn't work, though I'm open to practical reasons. And I have the luxury of being able to rehouse one species if it doesn't work out.

 

[Ferris]

I think the biggest reason africans and south americans aren't mixed is a) because most of them require different water conditions and environments and b) their character.

You have answered your own question, i'm not really sure what needs adding.

 

[tenohfive]

I think the biggest reason africans and south americans aren't mixed is a) because most of them require different water conditions and environments and b) their character.

You have answered your own question, i'm not really sure what needs adding.

I've chosen fish that need similar water chemistry requirements which covers a) and fish that are relatively placid (as cichlids go) which hopefully covers b)

 

[algae eater]

When I first got my tank, I bought it at a Pet Store that handled all pets, not just fish. As it turns out they knew little about fish as did myself. When I bought my fish I ended up with mostly Africans but also a couple South Americans. They fought quite abit. I finally ended up getting rid of the SA and things became much calmer. Don't mix them. Good Luck

 

[tenohfive]

Will be adding the Africans first and one of the SA varieties afterwards. If they don't get along with the africans I'll rehome them.

Thanks for the reply though, I've not heard of many people who have mixed the two. It seems because it hasn't been done, people don't do it. Not a bad thing, better to be on the safe side - but owning to the fact I can rehome the fish if necessary, I'm willing to take the chance.

Will let you know how I get on, whichever way it goes

 

[Gatorbait]

Unless you get F1's they all come from the same water chemistry and if you aren't into breeding them then I don't see the different water chemistry argument being a valid one. I'm definitely in the minority on that though as everyone says it does make a difference but IMO it doesn't so take it for what it's worth. You'll most likely get them from the lfs and they are in the exact same water, which if it's close to you is probably the same water as yours.

The 2 biggest reasons I foresee a poblem is temperament, dietary needs and the way they fight.

In general, SA/CA cichlids especially the same size don't stand a chance among african cichlids because of the speed factor especially when territory isputes arise and they fight to settle them. Africans are so much quicker and don't fight mouth to mouth like SA/CA's do. It can make what would usually be a quick dispute and be over turn into a long and drawn out battle that never ends or won't end until one is dead or harrassed too much unecessarily, imo.

Dietary needs is another, especially if you go with Mbuna as they can get bloat very easily with the wrong foods.

Personally, I would advise aginst mixing the two.

 

[tenohfive]

Not going with anything as big as Mbuna, just the two smaller africans I've listed above.

Anyone got any alternative to SA/CA suggestions that'll fit in with the other two africans, don't grow too big and are happy enough in high pH conditions?

 

[kj23502]

not really...this is the african section Not familiar w/to many sa/ca.

 

[tenohfive]

not really...this is the african section Not familiar w/to many sa/ca.

I said has anyone got any alternative to the SA/CA ones I was looking at i.e Africans that will fit in my tank instead of putting in SA/CA cichlids.

 

[kj23502]

Not going with anything as big as Mbuna, just the two smaller africans I've listed above.

Anyone got any alternative to SA/CA suggestions that'll fit in with the other two africans, don't grow too big and are happy enough in high pH conditions?

I thought you were asking about other suggestions for fish from the other side of the creek

How about a mixed tang commuity? What's your tank size? I'd be happy to reccommend some to you to look into

 

[kj23502]

3 ft x 1 foot? 3 foot by a foot and a half?
Suggestions from cichlid forum:

Tanganyikan Sand-Sifter Setup:
• Xenotilapia papilio or flavipinnis - 6
• Paracyprichromis brieni or nigripinnis - 8
• Altolamprologus calvus or compressiceps pair
• Phyllonemus typus - 4
______________________________________
• Altolamprologus calvus or compressiceps pair
• Neolamprologus buescheri
• Shell dweller pair of choice -
'Lamprologus' (Shellies) brevis,
multifasciatus (group), melegaris,
ornatipinnis, ocellatus, speciosus,
similis (group), Neolamprologus signatus
____________________________________________
Select 1 pair from each group (max of 2 pairs):
• Altolamprologus calvus or compressiceps
• Neolamprologus leleupi or cylindricus
• Julidochromis or Chalinochromis species
• Telmatochromis vittatus, bifrenatus or
brichardi

 

[tenohfive]

Thanks, I'll do some looking into those a bit later and see what would be most suitable, then decide whether or not to abandon the idea of mixing. Cheers