May have made a mistake, need advice.

[stg1969]

Hi all,

I think I made a mistake cycling my tank, and then putting too many fish in too soon. I kinda got caught between fishless and fish-in cycling, and probably showed too much faith in Bio Enhancers and my early water test readings.

I started my 50 gallon (external filter) by giving it a good old clean (with all the right methods) - as the tank had been poorly looked after by previous owner. With this tank came a small Bristlenose (1 inch) and a single Beunos Aries tetra (3 inch) - I took them as part of the deal to rescue them from crappy conditions.

I immediately put those 2 fish in another tank I already have to save their lives, and began cycling the second hand tank.

After a couple of weeks, I put the plec and tetra back in it, and left it for a couple of weeks. Keeping an eye on pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. After it all seeming okay, I started adding more fish, but I fully admit, I went too much too soon. 6 Tiger Barbs, 6 Gold Tigers, 6 Rummy Nose Tetras and 2 Yoyo loaches all got added within a couple more weeks. (I realise this was a bad mistake, but I need constructive advice rather than a telling off, I will learn from this mistake).

All seemed fine until I lost 4 barbs to fin rot.

The ammonia levels for the last few weeks have been steady between 0.25 and 0.5 on the API chart (notoriously hard to read), and I have been doing 50 percent changes every few days. This temporarily drops the Ammonia to say, 0.2 at a guess, but it soon rises back up to 0.5 a day or so later.

The tank has 4 or 5 healthy plants in it and a couple of moss balls.

My Mrs has read that once Ammonia gets like this, it cannot be fixed, and I have simply ruined my set-up by not cycling properly.

I have added more Bio Enhancer (which i thought would help), but it hasn't seemed to.

Current readings as of today

pH 7.0
Ammonia approx 0.4 to 0.5
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - approx 5

All the fish seem happy, the tank looks clean, but I'm worried about how to fix this without my fish dying. We are also going away for 5 days on Monday.

I have reduced feeding to once a day, small amount.

Any ideas anyone?

 

[Byron]

My first suggestion is to get a bottle of a good bacterial supplement. Tetra's SafeStart is one. This product certainly introduces nitrifying bacteria. This may or may not be the issue here though.

Second suggestion is to test your source water on its own for ammonia and nitrate (and nitrite while at it, though presumably there is none of this or it would show up in the tank water). You may have ammonia in the source (tap) water, or it may be present via chloramine if this is used by your municipal water authority in place of or with chlorine. Chloramine will break apart as partly ammonia. The nitrate test will confirm if the nitrates are in the source water or from the biological process in the aquarium.

Third, if the pH remains below 7.0 the ammonia will be more ammonium which is basically harmless. What is the pH of the tap water on its own? Remember to out-gas any CO2 before testing tap water for pH; let a glass sit 24 hours, or very briskly agitate it for several minutes.

Fourth, what are the five healthy plants (species)? Plants rapidly take up ammonia/ammonium and the faster growing species are best for this.

It would be preferable not having to be away for five days at this time, but depending upon the above results you may bee OK anyway. Do a good water change the day prior, vacuuming into the substrate in open areas.

 

[FishGuest5123]

I agree with Byron. My ammonia always reads at .5 ammonia but my water source does too because city uses chloramine. When I test for free ammonia I’m fine. You may want a to get an ammonia alert to hang on the front of your tank. Made by Seachem. Good luck!

 

[stg1969]

I agree with Byron. My ammonia always reads at .5 ammonia but my water source does too because city uses chloramine. When I test for free ammonia I’m fine. You may want a to get an ammonia alert to hang on the front of your tank. Made by Seachem. Good luck!

Doesn't the API dechlorinator I'm using get rid of chloramine as well as chlorine, it says that it does? So even if it was in my tapwater, it's eradicated before i use it, because I treat it. Also, I have had lower readings, and my tapwater tests okay,

 

[Essjay]

All dechlorinators remove chlorine, and split chloramine into chlorine and ammonia then remove the chlorine part. Some dechlorinators also contain a chemical to detoxify the ammonia left from the chloramine. The detoxification effect only lasts around 24 hours then the detoxified ammonia turns back into ammonia. By this time, the tank bacteria or plants will have removed it all. But other dechlorinators do not detoxify ammonia; the ammonia from chloramine is then left in the water until the bacteria or plants have had time to remove it.


Our ordinary testers can't distinguish between ammonia and ammonium, they measure both combined. At low pH virtually all the ammonia is in the less toxic ammonium form, but at high pH there is a lot in the more toxic ammonia form.

 

[FishGuest5123]

Correct. That why using an alert is good. It actually measures free ammonia.

 

[stg1969]

Thanks for the advice everyone. For info, my tap water does not have ammonia present, i test this before each water change.

I found some interesting info on ammonia/ammonium. So it appears that my pH is now 6.8 and temperature is 24-25. If i use the ammonia/ammonium table, it says that 0.0052 percent of my 1ppm is actually ammonia, and the rest is ammonium.

Can i assume that this is okay then?

And why on earth don't standard tests just test for harmful ammonia, it's very misleading and not helpful..as if it wasn't hard enough to read the API colour chart as it is, now I learn that even that result is not accurate.

 

[Byron]

Thanks for the advice everyone. For info, my tap water does not have ammonia present, i test this before each water change.

I found some interesting info on ammonia/ammonium. So it appears that my pH is now 6.8 and temperature is 24-25. If i use the ammonia/ammonium table, it says that 0.0052 percent of my 1ppm is actually ammonia, and the rest is ammonium.

Can i assume that this is okay then?

And why on earth don't standard tests just test for harmful ammonia, it's very misleading and not helpful..as if it wasn't hard enough to read the API colour chart as it is, now I learn that even that result is not accurate.

I partly answered some of this in post #2. Ammonia is primarily ammonium in acidic water, and plants will take this up. You didn't answer my question as to what plants you have, nor did you indicate nitrate test results for the tap water alone.

I believe there are test kits that differentiate between ammonia/ammonium, but they may bee more expensive.

 

[FishGuest5123]

Think I paid like $7.00 for my Seachem Free Ammonia Test Kit. My ammonia alert on the tank was inexpensive too. Works great for about a year. I was pulling my hair out with .25 ammonia before I started testing for free ammonia.

 

[stg1969]

I partly answered some of this in post #2. Ammonia is primarily ammonium in acidic water, and plants will take this up. You didn't answer my question as to what plants you have, nor did you indicate nitrate test results for the tap water alone.

I believe there are test kits that differentiate between ammonia/ammonium, but they may bee more expensive.

Hey Byron, sorry, didn't mean to appear rude. We have been away for 5 days. I do get the difference now between ammonia/ammonium, I was just having a moan that these basic test kits seem pointless then,

As for my plants, I can't remember what they are. 2 of them are amazon sword which haven't grown much, but then there are 2 that have grown like wildfire, they have several stalks with lots of small other stalks/leaves coming off at intervals, and have really spread. Then there is one with thin vertical individual fronds that has grown medium.

As for my tapwater, negative for ammonia/nitrate/nitrite - i think the water is pretty tip top down here in Cornwall, England.

I feel i may get a free ammonia test kit from somewhere.

Thanks for all the advice. Fish seem happy, not gasping for breath, or going to the top for air, no odd behaviour, no illness as far as i can see,

 

[stg1969]

Think I paid like $7.00 for my Seachem Free Ammonia Test Kit. My ammonia alert on the tank was inexpensive too. Works great for about a year. I was pulling my hair out with .25 ammonia before I started testing for free ammonia.

Thanks Deahasue, I will see if I can get those in the UK.

 

[Byron]

Reading through this thread again, to answer your initial question about ammonia...it is not a problem so nothing is needed.