Tokis-Phoenix
^_^
Okay this thread is going to be a bit of a rant i warn you but i am raising some important points i believe...
..."cough"....
Ok in this thread i want to raise some issues facing livebearers and how i believe most of them stem down to the fact that they are considered "beginner fish"...
When somone says "beginner fish", what things first come to mind? Tough fish that can live in bad water quality and no specialised diet, sturdy fish that are easy to stock and don't grow huge, fish that don't need large tanks and are pretty care free as far as tank maintanence and caring is concerned, etc etc...
Out of all the fish out there, livebearers don't make bad beginner fish but that doesn't mean they don't need alot of care or maintanence- all fish should be given good water quality conditions, diet and the right size tank when it comes down to it.
But many people veiw livebearers that don't need all this all these certain elements of fish keeping attended too so greatly and can be made an exception of with them.
FACTS;
a. the MINIMUM tank size for any livebearer is 10 to 15gallons.
b. Mollys and swordtails can easily produce up to over 100fry and their fry take up to a year to mature. Guppy and platy fry take between 4 and 7months to mature.
c. Guppys and platys can produce fry up to once a month and can easily produce over 30fry a batch- somtimes over 50 is not that uncommon.
d. All common female livebearers(swordtails, platys, guppys, mollys etc) can store sperm in them for up to 7 pregnancys meaning that they only need to be in contact with one male in their lives to produce fry at any point, so all-female groups do not prevent fry.
e. All-male groups are posible but tend to have more issues than mixed gender groups and need to be stocked much more slowly in much bigger tanks than mixed gender groups on average. Most all-male groups need a minimum of 5males to work well at all.
f. The minimum mixed gender ratio is 2-3females per male, but and extra female needs to be added to this ratio for every male after one male and even so this is may not totally neutalize conflict and harrassment between males and females.
It is near imposible though to have more than one male swordtail in a mixed gender tank without them trying to kill each other- we are talking at least 15females between 2males.
g. Salt is not essential for mollys to be healthy and they can live happily without it, although salt cannot be used with "scaless" fish and it is not good for long term use with other livebearers, it does make an effective med against deseases like finrot though although what it can cure is pretty limited.
h. There are 3types of molly- standard/common ones, sailfins and balloon mollys. standard mollys grow to about 3-4inchs, sailfins can grow to 5inchs+ and balloon mollys get to about 2-3inchs.
Swordtails and sailfin mollys need a minimum tank of 15gallons and this applys to other types of mollys although technically 2 standard or balloon mollys of same gender can be put in a 10gallon tank.
i. Inbreeding should be avoided in all types of livebearers as many are already very inbred and it has many bad effects which are already very apparent in many livebearers, particually guppys and platys, and it is very irresponsable to worsen this effect on the species knowingly.
j. If you are to have all-female or mixed gender group of livebearers, be prepared that they will breed and have fry no matter what. You should not just cull fry automatically everytime you get them as this is very irresponsable behaviour and you should not be having these groups if you know you cannot look after any of the fry- i am sure many betta people would be in an uproar if somone posted on the betta section that they were going to breed bettas and then cull all the fry or all apart from 5 or so because they knew they didn't have the space for them, i don't think this should be any different for livebearers.
..........
It is amazing how many people do not take note of these simple facts! I think livebearers are often abused fish and it gets me angry.
There are many people dedicated to breeding top quality livebearers- there are competicions with big money as prizes and clubs that are dedicated to them entirely and i think they are just as much of an advanced fish keepers fish as a beginners fish.
It seems to very accepted and understood that if somone gets bored of their guppys they move on to another type of fish, but i know this would not be the case if it were a rare plec or betta or cichlid etc- why should it be so different for livebearers and why is there so much less responsability over them...??
I hope anyone who is about to get a livebearer takes all these factors into consideration, thankyou for your time and any comments are appreiciated
.
..."cough"....
Ok in this thread i want to raise some issues facing livebearers and how i believe most of them stem down to the fact that they are considered "beginner fish"...
When somone says "beginner fish", what things first come to mind? Tough fish that can live in bad water quality and no specialised diet, sturdy fish that are easy to stock and don't grow huge, fish that don't need large tanks and are pretty care free as far as tank maintanence and caring is concerned, etc etc...
Out of all the fish out there, livebearers don't make bad beginner fish but that doesn't mean they don't need alot of care or maintanence- all fish should be given good water quality conditions, diet and the right size tank when it comes down to it.
But many people veiw livebearers that don't need all this all these certain elements of fish keeping attended too so greatly and can be made an exception of with them.
FACTS;
a. the MINIMUM tank size for any livebearer is 10 to 15gallons.
b. Mollys and swordtails can easily produce up to over 100fry and their fry take up to a year to mature. Guppy and platy fry take between 4 and 7months to mature.
c. Guppys and platys can produce fry up to once a month and can easily produce over 30fry a batch- somtimes over 50 is not that uncommon.
d. All common female livebearers(swordtails, platys, guppys, mollys etc) can store sperm in them for up to 7 pregnancys meaning that they only need to be in contact with one male in their lives to produce fry at any point, so all-female groups do not prevent fry.
e. All-male groups are posible but tend to have more issues than mixed gender groups and need to be stocked much more slowly in much bigger tanks than mixed gender groups on average. Most all-male groups need a minimum of 5males to work well at all.
f. The minimum mixed gender ratio is 2-3females per male, but and extra female needs to be added to this ratio for every male after one male and even so this is may not totally neutalize conflict and harrassment between males and females.
It is near imposible though to have more than one male swordtail in a mixed gender tank without them trying to kill each other- we are talking at least 15females between 2males.
g. Salt is not essential for mollys to be healthy and they can live happily without it, although salt cannot be used with "scaless" fish and it is not good for long term use with other livebearers, it does make an effective med against deseases like finrot though although what it can cure is pretty limited.
h. There are 3types of molly- standard/common ones, sailfins and balloon mollys. standard mollys grow to about 3-4inchs, sailfins can grow to 5inchs+ and balloon mollys get to about 2-3inchs.
Swordtails and sailfin mollys need a minimum tank of 15gallons and this applys to other types of mollys although technically 2 standard or balloon mollys of same gender can be put in a 10gallon tank.
i. Inbreeding should be avoided in all types of livebearers as many are already very inbred and it has many bad effects which are already very apparent in many livebearers, particually guppys and platys, and it is very irresponsable to worsen this effect on the species knowingly.
j. If you are to have all-female or mixed gender group of livebearers, be prepared that they will breed and have fry no matter what. You should not just cull fry automatically everytime you get them as this is very irresponsable behaviour and you should not be having these groups if you know you cannot look after any of the fry- i am sure many betta people would be in an uproar if somone posted on the betta section that they were going to breed bettas and then cull all the fry or all apart from 5 or so because they knew they didn't have the space for them, i don't think this should be any different for livebearers.
..........
It is amazing how many people do not take note of these simple facts! I think livebearers are often abused fish and it gets me angry.
There are many people dedicated to breeding top quality livebearers- there are competicions with big money as prizes and clubs that are dedicated to them entirely and i think they are just as much of an advanced fish keepers fish as a beginners fish.
It seems to very accepted and understood that if somone gets bored of their guppys they move on to another type of fish, but i know this would not be the case if it were a rare plec or betta or cichlid etc- why should it be so different for livebearers and why is there so much less responsability over them...??
I hope anyone who is about to get a livebearer takes all these factors into consideration, thankyou for your time and any comments are appreiciated
.
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...mollys,and,salt
Are there any valid tests that have been done on the subject?
.
