Lion Fish

[Tommy Gunnz]

I was just reading through some posts with suggestions about keeping a lionfish and even though I dont want to steal that person's thunder on this topic, I wanted to start a thread about these fish for mine and everyone's benifit.

I just started keeping saltwater fish and my first inkling was to stock my tank with a lionfish and a snowflake moray eel. However, the second I started my research, I heard that lionfish are poisonous and can inflict a VERY painful wound during feeding or cleaning if it is spooked. Is this true?

The reason I started a new thread about this is because of the particular attributes of my own tank. It is a 90 gallon bowfront tank, which to put it simply, is a 72 gallon bowfront tank, only about a foot and a half taller. This means that even with the longest python I can find, I would still have to put my hand well into the tank to clean and I am worried that I could get into some trouble with a lionfish in there. Even now, I have a porcupine puffer, and it will slightly puff up during cleaning, so I would assume that it is somewhat stressful for the fish when I have my hands in the tank.

I also understand that the lionfish are messy, but this is not a big problem for me because I do not mind the extra work to keep the tank clean. However, I do not know how well my hospital could handle a lionfish 'sting' seeing as how in Wisconsin, the only thing poisonous around here is the daddy longlegs spider!

 

[SeahorseWhisperer]

My husband was stung by a lionfish we had many years ago, and got a secondary infection. He had to be on really strong antibiotics for 6 months. The sting itself is very painful, but unless you have a reaction to it, it is not fatal. I have a friend who owns a fish store and has been stung 4 times.


We now have an antennata lion in our 75 gallon reef. I do hand feed him which creeps my husband out. He is a very gorgeous specimen. I do keep my eye on him at all times. He moves slowly unless threatened or hungry....

I used to be very cautious working inside the tank, he would also come over when saw me because I am the bringer of snacks, but now he knows when it dinner time and when to ignore me.

I also have a porcupine puffer in that tank. Great minds think alike?

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

Thanks seahorse! I guess that even if the fish 'sting' isnt fatal, I would still be leery and I also have kids so that might be a bad thing, just in case they decide to climb up in the tank or something. It is usually the least likely things that happen to me anyways.

That is good to know though that you can mix a lionfish and a puffer fish. I have been having problems with my puffer killing my clownfish (4 of them because the first pair I had, I thought they died in a rock slide). Right now I am stopping all stocking until I get a better idea on what I want and what I can do. The puffer is sweet otherwise though and it definately has its own personality. It will 'play' with me and follow my finger around the tank's glass. It does puff a little bit when I clean the tank, but it hasnt puffed completely yet and I hope I can make sure he wont. Here is a picture:

He is relatively big, about 5 inches long and 2 1/2 to 3 inches wide. He is a good 'showcase' fish for this tank, but like I said, other than huge tankmates, my stocking options are going to be heavily limited.

 

[SeahorseWhisperer]

My puffer has a pretty strong bite, and does eat anything that will fit in his mouth. I cannot keep a shrimp in that tank, so if I get an aiptasia, I need to remove the rock it's on. A major PIA.

Don't let your kids feed him until you teach them about his teeth. They are in the front of his mouth, and he uses then to crush coral!

Don't you love their personalties? Mine is just like a dog, wagging his tail and greeting me. I'll bet we could teach them tricks? Have you seen him spit water out of the top to get your attention?

 

[andywg]

While you can mix puffers with lions, it is far from uncommon for the puffer to decide to sample the lion fishes ample finnage. It's one of those things you will have to keep a very close eye on at the start, and then always be aware of them at a later date.

Best treatment for a lionfish sting is to dip the affected area into hot (but not scolding) water of around 40-43 degrees C.

I would recommend a radiata lionfish as I think they look a little bit better than a volitans, and don't get to the large size (I have been told 15" before, though upon reflection this would appear incorrect. Fishbase has it at 38cm). Pterois radiata are givena aa max of between 9 and 10".

Another good smaller lion is the Pterois antennata or spot fin lion, which tends to top out around an inch shorter than the radiata.

And my little known fact on porcupinefish: They don't use any "real" teeth. Their beak is actually a modification of the jaw which appears to have two (in the porcupine and burr fish Family Diodontidae) or four (in the pufferfish and tobie Family Tetraodontidae) teeth.

 

[demonmagus]

While you can mix puffers with lions, it is far from uncommon for the puffer to decide to sample the lion fishes ample finnage. It's one of those things you will have to keep a very close eye on at the start, and then always be aware of them at a later date.

Best treatment for a lionfish sting is to dip the affected area into hot (but not scolding) water of around 40-43 degrees C.

I would recommend a radiata lionfish as I think they look a little bit better than a volitans, and don't get to the large size (I have been told 15" before, though upon reflection this would appear incorrect. Fishbase has it at 38cm). Pterois radiata are givena aa max of between 9 and 10".

Another good smaller lion is the Pterois antennata or spot fin lion, which tends to top out around an inch shorter than the radiata.

And my little known fact on porcupinefish: They don't use any "real" teeth. Their beak is actually a modification of the jaw which appears to have two (in the porcupine and burr fish Family Diodontidae) or four (in the pufferfish and tobie Family Tetraodontidae) teeth.

about the radiata, what would you recommend as a tank size?

 

[andywg]

I have never kept it. Scott W. Michael has it as 30 gallons, but I would do larger if possible.

I would want at least 4x2x2x the animals size, so you are looking at around 40"x18"x18" tank which I make near to 55 US gallons for a full grown adult.

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

My puffer fish is also just like a dog, and it begs ALOT! It will definately follow my finger around the tank glass and when it has spent some time 'sitting' on a rock or what not, when I get up from the couch, it will get up and come to the front of the tank.

Tonight I tried the feeding stick (actuallty it was as skewer for cooking shish-kabobs that I dulled off the point) and I had him chasing krill for a bit. Once I let him catch it though, he ate one and couldnt be fooled again. I will try again in two days.

I think the lion fish is going to be a distant dream for now. I believe that I have the tank size, but I still have a lot to learn before I get into something like that. For now, I will see if I can keep the puffer happy and healthy before I get more fish. Right now I also have four small damsels in the tank and I tried to remove the two domino damsels last night, but couldnt catch them, even when I moved some rocks. I stopped before I stressed the puffer out.

I think this puffer is awesome, but I am wondering if you have any recommendations on what type of food to feed it in order to keep its 'teeth' growth in check. I have an apple snail in a freshwater tank and wouldnt mind getting another one. I thought maybe I could feed the babies I would get from keeping two of the snails in one tank, but was unsure if this was an ok idea or not. I figure if it is ok to use this tactic to feed clown loaches, then it cannot be too unethical to feed them to a SW puffer.

There is also a vet in my area known as the Puffer Doc, and supposedly she will come to my house to trim the puffer's teeth. I guess it must be ok since I have been refferred to her by a couple stores, but do not know if this is the best option or just allowing my puffer to chew on some snail shells would be best (probrably cheaper though).

Any suggestions?

 

[andywg]

Once the puff is on frozen start feeding on shelled inverts, such as mussels in the shell, clam, even crab/lobster claws. While smaller you may need to help by cracking the shells with a tap from a hammer.

If you feed the right (natural) type of diet for the porky then the teeth shouldn't be a real problem.