Lethargic Angelfish

[opus743]

Hello,
This is my first post so a little about me. I am an Army officer who keeps fish as a means to relax. I can stare at them far longer than the TV. At least the fish aren't full of... Okay, Not quite an amatuer my educational background is chemistry and biology. I have been into fish for about 25 years and have successfully bred numerous types to include dwarf gouramis, blue rams, angelfish, sailfin mollies and bettas.
Normally I can diagnose and treat any disease that comes my way but I am not sure about this one. Let me provide as much background as possible. I set this tank up about three months ago. It is a 29 gallon and contains 2 angelfish (1.5"L), 3 marigold swordtails (2"L), 4 serpae tetras (1.25"L) 2 Corydoras catfish (1.5"L) and anywhere from 5-7 one inch neon tetras. i tested water and things are good, temp is 78-80 degrees farenheit. Since set up I have lost one angel,five neons and two swords. I don't sweat this much as I believe some fish loss is innevitable and I believe in Darwinism.
Now that things seem stable I have one angelfish who has become very lethargic. It hovers near the surface or hides in the lower back behind scenery. This fish was very active before and came to the front glass anytime I cam near. It no longer does this. It also does not eat. I can't figure this one out.
I do have one theory, I believe some of the neons may have died from NTD (neon disease). I believe this Angel may have fed on a carcass and is now infected. Although rare, it is the only thing I can think of. There are no visible signs of any other disease.

Has anyone encountered this and if so how did you treat it?

thanks,
brian

 

[ArauraDiscus]

It could be NTD, but when ANgels are infected with NTD, normally they have massive black spots popping up due to melanophores in their skin being damaged. It could also be fish tuberculosis which causes fish to not eat and waste away and become shy and sickly. Also could be hexamita which is common in angels and will cause odd behavior, well before the signature hole in the head develops. Try some parasite meds and maybe some bacterial meds. If it's fish TB, it's really hard to cure and is a bacterial disease, the others are parasite diseases.

 

[Tolak]

Welcome to TFF! I love new members who give plenty of info when they have a problem, so I'll give you plenty of info.

Your angel has two of the three signs of internal protizoans, the third being white, stringy, mucosy feces. I've encounterd this numerous times with my angels, it's also common to discus as well as other new world cichlids. It's so common that I have the treatment saves in ms word, so here's my usual copy & paste for you.

Put the angel in a quar tank, I usually use a 10 gallon. Increase the temp over a day or so to 90-94F. Treat daily with 40 mg/gallon metronidazole, with 50% water changes daily. If the fish isn't eating, don't feed for the first 3 days. After 3 days, get some frozen brine shrimp. Take a portion about the size of a few match heads, and sprinkle on some metro. You have to eyeball this one, make the shrimp look kind of like a tiny powdered donut. Once it thaws, mix it in & feed. Sometimes they still don't eat for a few days, but once they start to mouth the food & spit it out, the meds seem to get in their system real good. Continue medicating the water & food for 7-10 days.

Metronidazole is sold as flagyl, het-a-mit, and a few other names I can't recall offhand, used to treat hexamita & hole in the head. They usually suggest 20mg/gallon, this often isn't enough. Metro deteriorates in 8 hours, so you could do twice daily water changes. I've done this on the weekends when I have time.

Don't let the high temp scare you, angels can handle higher than that. I've had them as high as 98 due to a broken heater. Just make sure to have only angels in the tank at that temp. Make sure to have plenty of aeration also, as warmer water holds less O2.

I've also added epsom salt while using metro, this helps with any constipation issues, cleans out the digestive tract. I start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, increasing by 1 teaspoon daily for 2 more days to bring it up to 3 teaspoons per 10 gallons. You will have to adjust how much you use when doing water changes. You may want to give this a try.

 

[opus743]

Thanks to both of you.

This kind of puts me at odds. Let me explain further; I am on temporary military duty in Arizona. I normally live in North Carolina. All I brought here is a 29 Gallon tank which I intended to set up with minimal effort in order to bring my personal "mantra" with me. Plants and fish help me relax.
Accordingly, I live in a small temporary apartment and do not have a quarantine tank with me. I am treating the entire tank with "guardian" which treats a variety of viral, bacterial and fungal disorders. I ahve also recently treated with an anti-fungal from Junglelabs because my swords showed signs of fin rot.
I do not see the physical symptoms of having ate an infected Neon (melanophores). So I will rule that out.
I have considered hole in the head and I am monitoring for it. I guess what it comes down to is that I need to watch this tank and If the fish does not improve I think I may destroy it. This will be the second one I lost unexplained. However, this time I may talk to the local high school and see if I can use the laboratory to conduct an autopsy. Call it professional curiousity

The lethargic behavior has been going on for three days. today it is more active but is hovering at the top of the tank "nose end" is constantly pointing to the surface.

Once again, thank you both for your help. I like the forum so I will be around a bit as my military schedule allows.

r//
Brian

 

[Tolak]

Well, you have to work with what you can. I would suggest you bring up the temp just a bit, to around 80F, and med the water a few times along with the food. You don't want to get that temp too high with the corys.

Thank you for what you are doing for our country, if you ever need angels I have tons of free ones for gentlemen like you. Just let me know.

John

 

[opus743]

Thanks John.

mr. fish coroner says: time of death 18:45 EST. He just plumeted down in some rocks and quit struggling to get up about 2 minutes ago. I am bagging him and refridgerating him. I am curious what the microscope will reveal...

I am raising the temp though because I have one left. I am goning to try a prophylaxis of medicated food directly to my survivor.

unrelated:
I am a second amendment sort of guy myself. The year ahead scares the ____ out of me.

R//
Brian

On a final note, I appreciate your recognition of our troops. I am humble. I am about to hit my 20th year in Sept. I have served in all three components and recntly switched from enlisted to officer. I have five combat tours dating back to Somalia in 1992-93. If I may be so bold, the best way anyone can support ou soldiers is to contact their elected officials and tell them we cannot abandon Iraq the way Bush's father abandoned Afghanistan in 1989 or we will have created the largest terrorsit haven in the world disguised under a Sunni v. Shiite civil war. If my generation and the one below me does not finish this fight, my children will fight it over again only worse.

 

[Tolak]

This is one of the few situations where I would suggest medicating a well fish, as many internal protizoans are a part of the normal digestive floura of fish. When a problem arises it is usually some sort of stressor allowing these protizoans to multiply beyond what is normal, and they then cause a problem.

Sounds like the way you think is the same way that I think. I'm closing this to avoid a political debate which will get this pulled from the board, and I also think you now have the situation under control.