Krib, Rams & Gourami

[Moe]

I have a 20 gal heavily planted tank. I would like to add two Blue Ram and two Krib and a pair of dwarf gourami. Will these fish be OK together and will they get along with what I've got? Any advice would be helpful.

 

[impur]

That should be ok. If the tank is matured then you can add em all at the same time, let em figure out the territory issues. But with adding these 6 fish you are going to overstock the tank, and that may lead to water chemistry problems.

 

[Alia]

I have heard of kribs and rams together, but are any of these pairs of fish breeding pairs? That could lead to some problems. It is my understanding that kribs can get very fierce with tankmates when breeding and raising fry, and the rams would likely be in the line of fire, perhaps the gouramis as well. For that matter, a pair of breeding rams (being cichlids as well) might also be troublesome. Twenty gallons, even heavily planted, isn't a lot of space for two cichlid pairs.

I'm guessing your gouramis will be males, as that is what is commonly available. I had a male krib (not a breeding male) in a community tank with my 4 dwarf gouramis, and I have to say that of all the fish, the gouramis were the ones the krib took issue with.

Since kribs are lower level and rams more mid-level (I believe), the gouramis would have to stay on top, which isn't really their habit -- they like the whole tank. Plus, gouramis aren't as quick swimmers as some other fish are.

I'd say danios would be better dither fish for your tank, should you feel the need for more than just the kribs and rams, but in all honesty I think that the four cichlids would more than fill a 20 gallon -- not so much in size as in personality. Make sure there are caves for the kribs, and maybe some mid level caves for the rams. Kribs would be miserable without their caves. Not as sure of rams.

Also, don't forget to research water chemistry. I think rams are partial to softer, more acidic water, while kribs are less picky -- but the pH will affect the sex of their fry. If you are going with breeding pairs, that will be a concern.

HTH, and good luck!

 

[Moe]

I'm so confused as to what to add to my tank. I think having tiger barbs is a problem. I don't think anything will be able to breed with them in there and it seems like there are no fish that get along well with them. I may try one pair of krib and see how it goes.

 

[impur]

Good plan. If you have a good LFS i would try taking the barbs in and exchanging them for some tetras or danios as Alia suggested. They would be less nippy, and stay small. Danios provide the best dithers IME for cichlids. I still have 4 out of 7 giant danios in my 55 with my large GT and JD.

 

[Moe]

Thanks for the great advice, I took the tiger barbs back to LFS no problem. They are pretty nice there. I got two pair of german rams. 2m 2f. They are beautiful. So far both the males seem to like the same female. I hope this does not become a problem. I asked LFS to suggest fish that would be good with the rams since now they are the only fish in the tank. He had Lemon cichlids (Leleupi) in the same tank with the rams and said they would get along well. I got two, cannot tell the sex they all looked the same they are still small less than two inches. When I got home I did some research and got conflicting opinions. Some sites said these were community fish. Others said species tank only. So far they are keeping to themselves and seem happy. I hope I didn't make another mistake. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what else to add to this tank. Some tetras maybe?

 

[fishdude]

Can't beleive no one o noticed this. Ok cichilds will unroot most plants so unless you have all java fern your plants aren't going to be good.

 

[Moe]

Help I just checked the water requirements for the rams and they do not match my water. (I know I should have done this before purchasing them) My ph is 7.4 and my water is medium to hard, do not have the exact #. Rams require a ph of 5 - 7 and a dh of 5 - 7. What will happen to them in my water?

 

[smb]

Help I just checked the water requirements for the rams and they do not match my water. (I know I should have done this before purchasing them) My ph is 7.4 and my water is medium to hard, do not have the exact #. Rams require a ph of 5 - 7 and a dh of 5 - 7. What will happen to them in my water?

Are you getting the info for water params online or are these what your lfs's water params are? (or wherever you got them)

Most online info is for wild fish and not accurate for fish bred by the lfs or breeders. I wouldn't worry about that and only try to match the water where they came from. That's what they're used to.

 

[Moe]

SMB The water params were for wild fish. The LFS has the same water params that I have. That makes me feel so much better. I'm still new at this and there is so much to learn and so many conflicting opinions on line. So far fish seem happy and they are getting along well.

I also have to thank you for your link on fishless cycle. We did a fishless cycle on my daughter's new 10G. It took exactly 7 days following your directions. It was so easy, going fishless is much easier on the fish but more important to me it was easier on my daughter. She was devastated when we got our 1st tank and didn't know about cycling, we put 15 fish in the 20G in day one and slowly watched them die. Going fishless makes everyone happy. Thanks!

 

[smb]

SMB The water params were for wild fish. The LFS has the same water params that I have. That makes me feel so much better. I'm still new at this and there is so much to learn and so many conflicting opinions on line. So far fish seem happy and they are getting along well.

There are many conflicting opinions online, and even here at this particular forum, about everything that has to do with aquriums. Usually, everyone of us is correct in some form because it's mostly our opinions based on our experiences. You'll soon know what to sift out and take from each of our posts and online based upon your experiences also.

I also have to thank you for your link on fishless cycle. We did a fishless cycle on my daughter's new 10G. It took exactly 7 days following your directions. It was so easy, going fishless is much easier on the fish but more important to me it was easier on my daughter. She was devastated when we got our 1st tank and didn't know about cycling, we put 15 fish in the 20G in day one and slowly watched them die. Going fishless makes everyone happy. Thanks!

Your welcome, Moe.

I'm so glad you tried the fishless cycle and that you and your daughter was happy with it.

Hopefully we'll have another lil aquarist in our midst someday.

 

[Alia]

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what else to add to this tank. Some tetras maybe?

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, really I'm not, but you have 6 (up to 4" apiece) cichlids in a twenty-gallon tank already, so I would use great trepidation in adding more fish, especially when you are hoping for a breeding. I'm no expert, but I have read a lot of posts about cichlids and the concensus seems to be practically unanimous in that all cichlids are potentially aggressive, especially when kept in small spaces. Your breeding pair could even turn on eachother! It is more likely that they will turn on your other rams, I believe, but it is still a possibility.

It sounds to me like you are trying to have a nice community tank -- I just don't want you to end up with a war zone. CM is really the guy you want to talk to about cichlids -- he's the master! You're adding fish pretty quickly, anyway, why not give the bacteria a chance to catch up and give CM a holler for some really expert advice?

Good luck with your tanks.

Alia

 

[Moe]

OK after much debate and research I'm taking the Lelupe back. The rams stay pretty small two and a half inches. Tank is over 2 mo old. I took out 8 fish the day I added the rams and the lelupe. It seemed like a pretty even swap. Thinking about a school of tetras and some gourami. (don't worry I won't add too fast)

 

[Alia]

I found this excellent page about rams that should really help you. I know you've been doing research on the web, but maybe you've missed this one. I read through most of it and think you will find it very helpful. I really believe that taking back the leleupi was the best path -- maybe this page will help you decide what and how many, if any, other fish to add to your tank. Please do not add gouramis unless they are dwarfs or honey gouramis. Anything else will be too large and too aggressive, and even some of the dwarfs may have strong personalities -- honeys are said to be shy, like your rams.

Rams

Anyway, I hope this page helps you finalize your plans.

Alia

 

[Alien Anna]

I think leleupi are gorgeous fish, but everything I've read about them suggests a species tank may be best.

I think you did the right thing in taking them back. I hope you enjoy your rams - it sounds like you are getting a much better idea of what sort of tank you're looking for. Don't worry about the pH and water hardness - fish are a lot more tolerant than most books seem to suggest. However, you can always cut the water change water with RO (gradually, over a period of weeks) if you want to soften and acidify your water. A lump of bogwood in there (well soaked to get rid of the tannins) would also help - in fact, it's all I use for one of my tanks to keep the pH and KH down.