krib gone mad?

[Pointy_kitty]

well
i have a 20 gallon planted tank with tons of caves/roots and plastic plants
the inhabitants include:

3 khuli loaches
1 flying fox
1 golden gourami
1 blue gourami
1 dwarf gourami
1 upsidedown catfish
1 male kribensis

(21.5" not including khulis since they don't take up ANY space and do a fantastic job of cleaning, therefore do not take away from your stocking level unless in a large group)

well everyone is peaceful and get along great
then i added a 2" bolivian ram today (i couldn't resist)
but when i put him in the tank (about 10 minutes ago) the krib kept nipping him
this krib is supposed to be community (especially cause he is the only one in the tank) and is usually VERY placid!
he's only and inch but the ram seemed a bit afraid and blended in with the gourami's in the top of the tank (who, although curious as to what the heck she was, were happy to share their group)

i think they will be ok but i just wanted a second opinion
is this just because she is a new fish in the tank or will the krib and the ram (although both peaceful) not get along?
i have 2 weeks to bring her back to the store and restore order in my tank if worse comes to worse

do you think they will be ok?

 

[Nix]

Kribs are cichlids there for they are territorial, the ram being introduced he saw it as a threat to his territoy, Try rearragning stuff in the tank Trick em into thinking its not the same place..

 

[Pointy_kitty]

Kribs are cichlids there for they are territorial, the ram being introduced he saw it as a threat to his territoy, Try rearragning stuff in the tank Trick em into thinking its not the same place..

i understand that kribs are cichlids, the same as rams are cichlids,
but they are both community
so i assumed that they would less territorial and i would not have
to go to such extents as rearanging the tank
but i will try your method

BTW i went dwnstairs and the krib is leaving the ram alone, but he is swimming around a bit jerky (catiously)

 

[Synastic]

Aw PK, you and your animals . Thats all I am going to say

 

[Pointy_kitty]

Aw PK, you and your animals . Thats all I am going to say

oh synastic,
you and your love for me and my animals



anyone else have an opinion?

 

[cometcattle]

They should be fine, but I would watch them closely.

Is the ram male or female?

 

[Pointy_kitty]

They should be fine, but I would watch them closely.

Is the ram male or female?

the ram is a femal and the krib is a male

 

[Pointy_kitty]

noone else has a voice?

 

[Cheese Specialist]

i understand that kribs are cichlids, the same as rams are cichlids,
but they are both community

Not all the time, they're not. I have 3 that are and one that won't tollerate any other fish at all.

I'd be worried about the stocking of your tank to be honest, it may be a little bit crowded. I don't go on inch per gallon rules but I'm fairly certain that for fish over 3" they are meant to be allocated more water.

These being your krib, USD and maybe your gouramis. Also, although you haven't accounted for the kuhlis, they do take up space in the tank, even if not bioload. This would be fine if it were't fish that can be seen as agressive in there. I imagine the krib feels that his territory is getting smaller.

 

[Tropjunky]

new fish in a mature tank might be seen as a thret and then again it could be a personality thing like my neons they sometimes pick on eachother (i think they're board) any ways it should settle in soon i might find a gang to hand out with or it might fend for itself and then other fish might leve it alone

 

[guppymonkey]

Cichlids are all territorial (even so-called community fish like Kribs and Rams). I have noticed that my Kribs have a tendency to take over certain areas of their tanks and mock charge fish that enter the territory.

In your case Pointy Kitty the Krib probably sees that Ram as a rival. They have similar body shape and finnage. The Krib might get used to the Ram but on the other hand it might just harass it until it dies! I would return the Ram, your tank is pretty full anyways.

 

[Pointy_kitty]

pretty full?
try perfectly full
it isn't overstocked
the compatablility other then the ram is perfect
the krib happily shares his so called "territory" with the flying fox and the two of them are far closer in appearance then a RAM and a krib
hehehe
kribs and rams have a completely different body shape and finnage
my water perams of this tank are perfect
don't worry guppymonkey
i have years of experience so to go slightly over the 1" of fish per gallon is ok
and i am fully taking into account possible territory or semi-aggression
but i have balanced the tank accordingly (up until the ram)
i have a very complicated bottom (caves, logs, roots and plants)
which have succefully reduced 99% of aggression in the flying fox, the gourami are top dwelling
noone pays any attention to the little herd of khuli loaches
the UDC is noctournal and very sneaky (always camoflages)
the krib WAS the only bottom dwelling fish that is larger but he and the flying fox get along marvelously

like i said above i will return the ram if a problem arises in the next 2 weeks
but the krib is not doing so much nipping to "kill" the fish, even just with stress
in fact the ram just slightly backs up, but does not cower or swim away
and the krib has been almost completely leaving him alone today so far

i would not return the ram simply because she didn't instantly "click" in my tank
even community may fight on the first ady with a new tank mate

 

[smithrc]

i have years of experience so to go slightly over the 1" of fish per gallon is ok

I've thrown that rule out the window... its all about experience and maintainance

 

[Pointy_kitty]

i understand that kribs are cichlids, the same as rams are cichlids,
but they are both community

Not all the time, they're not. I have 3 that are and one that won't tollerate any other fish at all.

I'd be worried about the stocking of your tank to be honest, it may be a little bit crowded. I don't go on inch per gallon rules but I'm fairly certain that for fish over 3" they are meant to be allocated more water.

These being your krib, USD and maybe your gouramis. Also, although you haven't accounted for the kuhlis, they do take up space in the tank, even if not bioload. This would be fine if it were't fish that can be seen as agressive in there. I imagine the krib feels that his territory is getting smaller.

i understand what you are saying,
but i have to somewhat twist you words before i agree
my water perams are perfect if the is what you are concerned about
but if it is "space"
an UDC does not need extra space,
yes they can get 3-4" but they are not active fish, they are tank lurkers
they do not require extra space
as for the kribs
kribs can reach 3-4" so are "iffy" but the breeder i received him from has kept all of her original fish, and none of her adults have exceeded 3"
so more likely then not, he will only reach 3"
and even if by some fluke he reaches 4"
he has not shown any signs of agression or "territory" up until now
he roams the entire tank and is completely placid

my 2 gourami's are grown (one being a 2.5" dwarf) the blue being full grown at 3"
the 3rd gourami (gold) is just reaching 2.5" but was from the same breeder,
who's fish did not exceed 3"

and khuli's body shape makes them different then regular fish
they stay in the gravel most of the time
and do not take up enough space to make a difference
a good fish keeper should not have to sit with a calculator punching in exact inches
an experienced fish keeper should calculate from territory, "rough size" (most fish sizes are rough estimates, or worse case senarios), and water perams
you can also obviously SEE if your fish do not have adequate room
the majority of the fish in this tank ARE, or are close to adult size
and they all have room
after all of this i will say my stocking levels are not a concern
it is simply the compatibility of the ram and the krib, which i beleive they will be ok
and they are getting along today as i suspected

thank you for your input

 

[Cheese Specialist]

In that case, you should have no problems. However you do, so something must be up. Your water parameters are not what matters as I said, the space issue is. Incidently, my adult kribs are over 4". My adult USD is 4"+.

Don't know why I bother, but...

The reason your krib had not had a problem with territory until now is because no-one else was really occupying it and he was the only cichlid.

Whether experienced or not, you still quantified your tank in tems of inches so that's what I picked up on. I don't go on such rules but the rule is generally different for larger fish and, no matter what your parameters are some fish are not meant to be together or not in a small area.

You say the kuhlis do not matter but I beg to differ. Kribs do not usually like bottom dwellers and kuhlis get quite large and occupy space, even if not bioload. The addition of another similar area dwelling cichlid may have tipped it. Or have you considered that they might breed? Stranger things have happened.

An fishkeeper need not sit with a calculator as you so nicely put, but as I said many, many times and I have always maintsined I do not follow rules like inch per gallon. I go on space, territory, parameters, filtration, maintenence and compatibility amongst other things.

I think you are out on space, territory and compatibilty and that's why you are having problems.