Is My Cycle Stalled? Ammonia Never Goes Below 1 Ppm

Some tanks are more stubborn.
 
 
Getting a bit of media from another tank, adding some bottled bacs and some plants can help to kick start things.  
 
What type of bottled bacteria do you recommend?   And do I still follow this instructions on this site if I use one?   I just know this seems to be going on forever!   I don't have any access to any media from another tank at this point.   
 
Stormer said:
What type of bottled bacteria do you recommend?   And do I still follow this instructions on this site if I use one?   I just know this seems to be going on forever!   I don't have any access to any media from another tank at this point.   
 
I'd recommend Dr. Tim's One and Only.  Buy it directly from them, as mishandling makes it useless.   Then, follow the directions that THEY give on how to proceed.  Its basically the same as the directions here, but I believe its recommended at an initial dose of either 1 ppm rather than 3ppm.  
 
 
Here's their directions.  
http://store.drtimsaquatics.com/Recipes_ep_54-1.html
 
 
They claim you can add fish in as little as 9 days.  We'll see about that.
 
This is the one uncontrollable variable in cycling when one has not done any external seeding of bacteria. Almost all tap water contains some number of nitrifiers when it comes out. The only question is how much. This is because of residual bacteria coming from either the water treatment and distribution system and even more often from the private piping which begins where the municipal systems ends. Even well water systems will have nitrifiers present.
 
The initial amount of bacteria in  a tank forms the base from which the ultimate colonies will reproduce. And of you are a bit of a math nut, you can see how this matters. Its like that old puzzle- which would you rather have $1,000,000 today or 1 penny (1/100 of a dollar for our UK etc. friends) doubled each day for a month. The answer is the penny and it is that doubling that makes this true. Choosing that penny ends you up with $5,368,709.12 after 30 days.
 
And this is how bacteria works as well. The fewer there are at the start, the longer it takes to complete a cycle. If, in that money example, you started with 2 pennies rather than one, on day 30 you have over $10 million.
 
The problem is that we have no way of knowing how much bacteria we have at the start of a cycle. Even when we seed things from another tank, we can not be certain how much bacteria has actually been added to a tank. The one thing we can know for sure is that the more bacteria one has at the start, the faster a tank will become cycled.
 
The reason for the note about ammonia not dropping in the trouble shooting section is to make sure if one's cycle is slow that it is not due to other causes such as low pH. low KH, expired test kits or testing error. From the sound or your situation it could be you have actually had some ammonia oxidation but cannot see it easily on the test. The next time you test for ammonia, also do a nitrite test and see if you get a reading. If you do, then you know your ammonia is being processed.
 
I tested for Nitrites on Day 7 and it was clearly 0 (very light blue), Ammonia was the same color as the day I added ammonia.   My next testing date is tomorrow (Day 10) and I will test for both Nitrites and ammonia.   I plan on giving the tank a good 2 weeks before I try something different.  
 
Good news! Tested tonight because I couldn't help it and I got a .25 Nitrite reading. It was light but the color wasn't baby blue!
 
Could I get some clarification on the directions (I'm no where near that point yet)?  
 
On Dose #3 (snack) when it says once you get two consecutive every other day ammonia test readings of 0 ppm.   Does that mean you add the snack dose on the day you get the 2nd reading of 0 or wait until the next day to give the snack dose?  
 
Stormer said:
Could I get some clarification on the directions (I'm no where near that point yet)?  
 
On Dose #3 (snack) when it says once you get two consecutive every other day ammonia test readings of 0 ppm.   Does that mean you add the snack dose on the day you get the 2nd reading of 0 or wait until the next day to give the snack dose?  
 
I'd suggest waiting until the next day.
 
Day 10:
 
Ammonia:  2 ppm 
Nitrite:  1 ppm
 
Progress is happening!
 
I will be so happy when I see the color green with more yellow than green to it because that means I am on my way to a cycled tank.  .50 would be a nice color at this stage.
 
Another question:   I have quite a bit of evaporation from my tank water about 2 inches now because it has been 90+ degrees here for days and the tank is upstairs in my bedroom so it gets warm, I've already re-positioned my heater so it is covered with water but I worry about my filter and the water level getting lower before this process is over.    I believe it will be over 2 ppm of Nitrite and below .75 of ammonia when I test tonight but was wondering if after I test and it is in fact what I think it will be, could I add more water to the tank (water has been sitting with dechlor in it for 14 hours, approximately 1 gallon) and then dose the tank to 2.50 ppm of pure ammonia instead of the 3 ppm?   The reason I suggest the 2.50 ppm of ammonia is because I have .50 ppm in my tap water.   Or should I just ride it out?   This filter is new so I'm not sure how long it will work with the water level decreasing.   My old filter would work until the tank was about 1/2 empty and then it would stop working.  And since I'm pretty sure I have a good 2 weeks or so before the tank cycles I wanted to ask this question now instead of when I'm in a bind.   
 
I did test last night even though I'm supposed to test every other day and I had 1 ppm of ammonia and I would say 5 ppm of Nitrite but it could have been between 2-5 ppm those purple colors are pretty darn close so hard to tell.  
 
The most likely reason for having ammonia in one's tap is due to one's water company using chloramine. When chloramine is broken down you get chlorine and ammonia. Dechlors normally handle both chlorine and and chloramine. However, in the case of chloramine the result of detoxifying the chlorine is ammonia. Ammonia is not wanted in an established tank with fish. In a cycling tank we are adding it, and as you did, we can adjust the ammonia dose to account for the tap ammonia.
 
However, most dechlors today come with an ammonia detoxifier included and this can cause issues when testing for ammonia in terms of false readings. There is a way around this in a tank being cycled fishlessly and that is to use a dechlor that does not contain an ammonia detoxifier. This will break down chlorine and chloramine but, in the latter case, will have no effect on the ammonia produced.
 
When using Prime one cannot rely on ammonia results for about a day after using it. According to SeaChem "Prime dissipates from your system within 24 hours." (from http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime.html ) This means you have another option here which is not to test the water for the next 24 hours after using Prime.
 
If you have 14 hour water and this is all that is treaedt, adding it to the tank will automatically dilute it. So the odds here is you are pretty much safe to do this. What concerns me more than ammonia would be nitrite. You nitrite is kikely over 5 ppm already or soon will be. I hate doing anything that slows the nitrite phase as it takes longer than the the ammonia phase in cycling.
 
To be safest I would advise you do the following. Wait until your aging water has been doing so for 24 hours before you do anything. Do not add any ammonia to the tank yet. Wait until you have topped it up with the 24 hour water. Then proceed from there. It wont hurt anything if one has to wait a few extra hours before doing the next ammonia dose called for in the directions. I would also suggest that you keep a few gallons of dechlored and aged water on hand or see if you can find a small bottle of dechlor that does not detox ammonia. Either one will make your life easier in terms of needing to add water during a fishless cycle for any reason.
 
The guidelines for adding ammonia in the cycling directions are designed to prevent problems from having too much ammonia or nitrite. Both the timing and amount to be added should never cause problems in this respect when the directions are followed. However, the key to testing is that 24 hour wait between adding and testing to see how much a tank handles in that amount of time. There is no danger if one tests on a day and finds out it is time to add ammonia but does not do so for another day. The cycle wont stop, it likely won't even slow. And even if it added a day to the total cycling time, this is meaningless compared to dosing too much and/or too soon and stalling or even undoing the cycle.
 
I just want to clarify because at this stage I don't want to do anything to stop the tank from cycling like I did last time.   Don't do anything tonight on the tank and skip a test day.   I will wait until tomorrow morning to add the 24 hour aged water.   Once I add the aged water in the a.m. can I test that evening at my normal time,  and if the Nitrite is above 2 ppm and ammonia is below .75 then I can add ammonia?   And when I add ammonia do I add the whole 3 ppm.   I know at the beginning you told me to add 2.50 ammonia but that was only that one dose.   I just want to be sure before I do anything and if this happens again with water evaporation can I just add the aged water and test that same day or wait 24 hours.   I'm hoping that I will just need to add this once and the tank will cycle.

Since the tank is only down about 1.5 to 2" of water and the tank should cycle in 2 weeks give or take some time wouldn't the tank be fine if I did nothing or should I go ahead at this time and add the water to be on the safe side?   Sorry for all the questions.
 

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