Is It Really Necessary?

[VidVid]

hey...i already have gravel (size: 1mm to 5mm round) 3-4 inches from the base of my aquarium... i added bunches of bacopa, anubias on driftwood and java moss on driftwood....there all doing fine in the subtrate i have...i was just wondering if a suitable subtrate with high nutrient level is really necessary for a planted aquarium or can i just add liquid plant fertilisers and dose it accordingly to replace the subtrate and hopefully have the same effect in giving out certain nutrients, amino acids etc.... i also note that i will have good lighting according to the plants i have and the tank size.... I also note that i will eventually by the CO2 injector.... like i said, the gravel is reasonably small and about 3-4inches high from the bottom, meaning the roots of plants can be safely planted without fear that it may float back up again....thanks in advance...

P.S. i was just new to planting and thought adding nutrient rich subtrate like laterite were not compulsory in a planted aquarium...now that i added a bunch of plants, i dont want to stress the fish, plants and water quality by taking them out and adding another bottom layer of subtrate if its really really necessary....so is it???

 

[gizmo001i]

The liquid fertilisers tend to stay in the water column and will be used by those plants which gain their nutrition via leaves etc. However, properly rooted plants that gain nutrition from the root system will not gain that much benefit from a liquid fertiliser. I'm not sure about the plants you have at the moment, but I am sure someone else can guide you in that way, far better than I can. Hope this helps.
Ian

 

[Themuleous]

IMHO adding a plant substrate is the first thing anyone should do, plants cant grow without food, no matter what else is going on in the tank. There are obvious exceptions like riccia and anubais but generally most plants do better with a plant substrate. I have plants growing well in 1WPG with a plant substrate.

BTW if you can afford to, there are better substrates out there than laterite, which is OK but not great.

Once you've got the substrate sorted then think about increasing the lighting and adding CO2 as these are not essential to get decent plant grow, although obviously they help. The other thing about adding the substrate is that adding everything else, lighting, co2, etc can be done without having to strip the tank down! So can be changed far easier at a later date and if you add it when you set the tank up, you never have to strip the tank down!

Adding a good trace mix is also a good idea as it'll add elements that the plants need. The tropica plant nutrition is generally considered to be the best.

Sam

 

[Egmel]

I have plants growing well in 1WPG with a plant substrate.

I'm glad to hear that as that's what I have got at the moment (am waiting for plants to arrive from Java-Plants). I used pond soil under sand as my substrate, cheap but should do the job

DIY Co2 next, then more lights when I get some more cash!

 

[Themuleous]

Its a 20G high to, I do have plant light tubes over it too, which help and only use easy plants like sags, moss and anubais, but it's certainly possible

Sam

 

[VidVid]

IMHO adding a plant substrate is the first thing anyone should do, plants cant grow without food, no matter what else is going on in the tank. There are obvious exceptions like riccia and anubais but generally most plants do better with a plant substrate. I have plants growing well in 1WPG with a plant substrate.

BTW if you can afford to, there are better substrates out there than laterite, which is OK but not great.

Once you've got the substrate sorted then think about increasing the lighting and adding CO2 as these are not essential to get decent plant grow, although obviously they help. The other thing about adding the substrate is that adding everything else, lighting, co2, etc can be done without having to strip the tank down! So can be changed far easier at a later date and if you add it when you set the tank up, you never have to strip the tank down!

Adding a good trace mix is also a good idea as it'll add elements that the plants need. The tropica plant nutrition is generally considered to be the best.

Sam

Thanx for the info guys...i do have a subtrate but the only problem is that its not nutrient rich...what you are saying is that plants cant grow without food....what im saying is that, i have a subtrate and plants already in it... Can i just use a nutrient rich liquid fertiliser or other plant food/fertilisers besides a plant subtrate to grow my plants....i will eventually increase the light once i add more plants in and i will add co2 eventually....If adding nutrient rich liquid fertilisers/plant food wont be enough to replace a nutrient rich subtrate, what is the best way of adding a new layer of subtrate (e.g. laterite) under my existing subtrate without stressing the fish, plants and beneficial bacteria already present in my developed tank???
Any replies gratefully welcome....

 

[Themuleous]

Arr I see, yes I think its possible to grow plants just with a nutrient rich water column, java ferns, mosses and anubias wont grow in the substrate so have to get their nutrients from the water! Where you might find you struggle is with your plant selection. Plants like lilies, swords and crypts are often heavy root feeders, i.e. take in lots of nutrients through their roots. So you might need to be a bit careful with plant selection. Guess you could use root tabs, which are blocks of nutrients that you push under the plants that need them, but you'll probably need lots and that can work out almost as expensive as the plant substrate, especially if you use laterite. Perhaps give that a try first? or as well as adding ferts to the water column?

As to changing the substrate, TBH the easiest way is to strip the tank down and move the fish to a bucket, if you try adding it and mixing it into the gravel when the tank is up and running, you cloud the water and probably stress the fish more by having you're hand in there and also the water movement. All my fish were fine when I recently stripped two of my tanks. Well actually I lost a few x-ray tetras but I think that was more due to the bucket being to small with no oxygen than stressing the fish. An airstone and/or small filter would solve that problem.

I would really consider adding the substrate before you upgrade the lighting and add CO2.

Sam

 

[plantbrain]

I've grown plants , around 200 species in water column only ferts for about a decade.
They grew more than adequately.............

I don't like to keep swords since they turn into "trees" in such tanks without any substrate ferts, inert silica sand only........

So they sure don't prefer nor require substrate ferts, Crypts either for that matter if you have good water column fert levels.

But this issue is not about either or, it's really about having a good long range plan.
A wise person would have some ferts in BOTH locations, not just one.
The plants will use the substrate as a back up if need be, if you neglect the water column dosing for some reason(we all do at some point), the other issue is transport and diffusion in/out of the gravel(generally this occurs plenty fast for water column nutrients to enter and be taken up in the gravel by roots).

With both you have:

1. Less distance to transport the nutrients to/from leaves/roots
2. Back up supply for the water column
3. Longer life out of any substrate fertilization method by adding water column ferts(less demand from the substrate ferts)
4. More flexibility with both routines(water column/substrate)
5. Less water column demand

But it's a myth that a sword plant prefers substrate ferts under good non limiting water column ferts.
The plants quickly become enormous.

Now if the water column is limiting and you add a jobe spike under a sword plant, it will grow faster no doubt.
The ease of that vs adding ferts 1-3x a week might outweigh the hassle, but it does not imply a sword "prefers" it.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[VidVid]

Thanx both of you for your replies...now i know alot more about plants and there requirements....im still thinking about whether or not to add the nutrient rich subtrate....but i am leaning toward just adding the liquid fertilisers instead since my tank contains already plants and fish and bacteria i dont want to stress too much....
Because im just planning on the liquid fertilisers, what plants would be most suitable for my tank....i am looking for bunches of background, mid and foreground plants to get me on my way.... so any suggestions welcome of what sorts of plants to buy that would be suitable for a tank containing just liquid ferts....thanks again for you replies...

 

[Themuleous]

But it's a myth that a sword plant prefers substrate ferts under good non limiting water column ferts.

I stand corrected although I would have thought its harder to get the water column ferts right than it is the substrate as a good plant substrate contains everything?

Sam

 

[d3tained]

I also stripped down my tank yesterday to add different ( Firtz ) substract.What I used is a small bucket of firtz soil I got a LFS ( very expensive stuff R200.00 and desined for aqa use) Just spread that evenly on the bottom of tank and then put in my sand over that.

It lasts a lifetime apparently as it have small little tablets in it releasing very very slowley.

I was sitting in the same position as you. I had Gravel, Good lightning ( 2.6 WPG, C02 Injection, Adding liquid Carbon and all Trace elements. This setup gave me absolutely horabile results in regard of plants. ( Tank was cyceled so nicely) They just died.

Now im waiting to see if adding rich sub really gonna make a difference, also using differemt fertz product.Sand looks much nicer I must say IMO.