Internal Parasites?

[targa66]

I had two skinny lethargic female guppies in my community tank - one died yesterday. Found her this morning and I could see very tiny red worm things next to her body - they didn't seem attached to her so I am guessing they were in her.
Are those internal parasites?? or could they be something that were in the tank and eating her body?
If it is internal parasites, can someone recommend a good treatment? I am in the UK.

My tank is 156 litres; fully cycled; water stats all good (pH a bit alkaline). I've got a few guppies, swordtails, rosy and neon tetras in there right now. All the other fish seem healthy (except the other female guppy who is just hanging at the surface).

thanks!!
Shelly

 

[fry_lover]

Hi Shelly

I had a similar problem over a year ago, was such a pain, lost quite a few live-bearers, it didnt seem to affect non live-bearers. It also mostly affected the female live-bearers, although not exclusively.

I wouldn't like to say for sure its internal parasites, Wilder knows more about that and i am sure she'll post on this sometime today.

If it's internal parasites or it'ss strongly suspected, my preference is to move fish showing symptoms (the skinny's basically) - Do you have anything tank wise or evena big container you can set-up for affected fish?

As Wilder has correctly pointed out previously, this doesn't necessaeily negate the treatment of the tank as a whole, but i really do advise moving the fish, due to the below paragraph here

Side Issue - Generally i dont like moving sick fish, as i am sure it stresses them more, but with the "skinny's" i think stressing the fish a little and dealing the practical problems of moving the fish is worth it, due to the risk the fish poses to other fish in the main tank. Dont panic though, if one fish has internal parasites it doesnt necessarily mean other fish will catch it, obviously they might, buts its not automatic.

Shelly i am not advising this to you at the moment, but me personally, in my community tank, if i see a fish that has lost a lot of weight despite eating, i euthanise it.... for 3 reasons (A) never seen a guppy, platy, swordtail or molly recover from this despite different treatments and (B i dont want to increase the risk of a wipe out or other deaths in my main tank and © I certainly dont want a corpse in my tank (fish dies overnight or i cant find the body) that then gets eaten or partially eaten by other fish. I euthanise a bit quicker than some would, so i am in the minority here i am sure.

Fortunately i only had this with two or three fish in over a year (all LFS purchased platy's)

Do a bit of Google research on internal parasites, have a look about, also do some research on treatments such as "wormer plus", but Wilder will advise more.

I think but not sure...... generally speaking, many traditional over the counter fish meds are not hugely successful with internal parasites although Waterlife's Sterazin claims to treat for some internal parasites.

It might not be internal parasites for sure, but what you describe suggests it could be.

Wilder's gonna ask anyway, so best get the info ready now if you can.......

EDIT: you already did most of this!!!!!!!

take size
total fish in tank
any recent water readings regardnig ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH

i would like to add...
any new purchases of fish recently? however in my experience not totally significant, i've had LFs purchased live-bearers get the "Skinny's" 6-9 months after i got them with no other fish in the tank affected.

My own personal theory, is that LFS purchased guppies, mollies, platies and swordtails have weaker immune systems and internal problems are much more likely to happen than with any other fish.

 

[Colin_T]

It sounds like thread worms, camallanus sp. Thread worms can affect any fish and are extremely common in fish from Asia, especially livebearers. The fish eat but get skinny. Quite often small red worms can be seen hanging out the fish's butt. The red colouration is blood the worms have sucked out of the fish's intestine. Eventually the fish die from anaemia.
If one fish has them then all the fish will probably have them. You treat the entire tank with something along the lines of Levamisole hydrochloride (Nilverm). There are other products on the market including Flubenol15, available in the UK, that is meant to work. Most of the remedies you see in fish books no longer work due to improper treatment in the fish producing countries. The parasites have become resistant to most of the common drugs.
Worms can also be introduced into a tank when feeding live foods, particularly small crustaceans that are caught in ponds where snails and water birds frequent. Culturing your own live food is a safer practice.

 

[fry_lover]

thats a good point about the live food

in the months before my outbreak i had been feeding live bloodworm every 3 weeks (for a few months) and once live tubifex (which although from a store with a great reputation - Whoelsale Trops) i think could have been responsible for the problems. No evidence though.

I understand feeding live tubifex is one of the worst foods you can give your fish (risk wise)?

After the reading i did on live foods (traditional ones from LFS - bloodworm, daphnia etc) i am now scared to even use live River Shrimp, although i did overcome that fear yesterday with my Bichirs.

But livebearers and live food, its been off the menu now for me for a while, and it likely wont be put on the menu unless i grow and cultivate it myself.

 

[targa66]

hi fry lover - thanks for your detailed answers! I do have two other tanks but unfortunately both have platy / swordtail fry of varying sizes in them. I'll take your advice on researching this and see if I can knock it out with treatments and without having to resort to euthanasia - I don't have a problem iwth it in principle but am squeamish about doing it myself, in all honesty.
There's no recently acquired fish but I think this has been going on for a while but it does only seem to affect the guppies. I do occasionally feed them daphnia, which I buy from Maidenhead Aquatics - I wonder if that's where they got it?!
thanks again for your help -will update soon.
-Shelly

hi Colin - thanks for the info - I do buy daphnia from Maidenhead Aquatics. Maybe that's where this came from. Will give the tank a good vacuum and try some of the treatment you suggested - hopefully that will knock this out.
Shelly

Worms can also be introduced into a tank when feeding live foods, particularly small crustaceans that are caught in ponds where snails and water birds frequent. Culturing your own live food is a safer practice.

 

[Colin_T]

A good clean live fish food you can grow at home is mozzie larvae. Put a bucket of water under a tree, add a few leaves and in a week or two you have mozzie larvae. Rinse them under the tap and feed away. You can even grow them in salt or brackish water, which will further reduce the chance of disease organisms getting into the main tank. I grow them in freshwater and give them a saltbath for 30 minutes before feeding them off. It is illegal to culture mozzie larvae so if anyone asks why they are there, tell them you have no idea
Daphnia are easy to grow as well. Make up a pond/ tub with freshwater and add a handful of lawn fertiliser. Leave it until it goes green. Then add some daphnia and watch them multiply. You can treat the daphnia with dewormer and move some into a clean pond with fresh green water. This should eliminate any diseases they may have. Alternatively get some daphnia eggs and add them to green water. The eggs are pretty sterile and should not introduce any pathogens.
Brineshrimp is also a clean food. The nauplii (baby shrimp) are highly nutritious and can be fed to most fish up to 4 inches long.