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Interdependency Tank

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Gelfling

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Hi,

I have recently bought a 246 litre tank (65 gallon) made from 10mm glass with weir, 40mm hole. The dimensions of the tank are 42" by 18" by 24". I want to use this tank for a mangrove set up that is connected to a tank containing ants at one side and a conical flask containing fruit fly at the other side. The idea being that the ants will climb over the mangroves and maybe some rope to get their prey (i.e. the fruit fly lava) whilst providing a target (along with any adult fruit fly) for the archer fish I wish to home in the actual mangrove tank. As a science teacher I think that this would make a great focal point for my lab that would make my pupils realise how one ecosystem is linked to another. Therefore, I was wondering if anyone has any advice for me - bearing in mind that I've never set up a brackish tank before?

Also, is it ok to keep archer fish with mudskippers? What is the minimum depth needed by archer fish?

Best regards,
Stuart
 
I like the idea, but it sounds difficult to do. Archers are fairly big fish (the common species is ~20 cm in captivity) and they'd need to eat a lot of ants. Ants taste pretty nasty, so there's no guarantees they'd even eat them.

Also, archers need water +30 cm in depth/width and +90 cm long, given their size, so an aquarium for them *and* mudskippers would have the be very large. Mudskippers are "scared" to go into water with bigger fish in that they are, so that's another problem. Mixing mudskippers with fishes is most easily done with things like guppies or mollies.

I suspect you can probably find an easier combination that this one. For example, something using algae, snails, and pufferfish. (The algae of course turning the nitrogeous wastes from the snails and puffer into protein.)

Cheers,

Neale
 
You would need a massive tank along the lines of 240 gallons for one puffer, thats with a divider too.

Anyways, Whats to keep the ants from just staying on the side with the fruit fly maggots? Also I agree that ants are not the ideal food. Maybe mosquitoes and mice would work, you'd have to add something that provides the nectar for the mosquitoes though. Oh heres an idea, although it depends on where you live, you could get a bee hive and have it so they have to fly through the air space of the mangrove tank to get outside.

Mudskippers need a little shallow water and a flat expanse of sand or mud to play on.
 
Thanks for the replies,

Opcn: the thing that will keep the ants from the fruit fly is temperature. However, I am thinking more along the lines of stick insects now as they breed like crazy. The idea of a bee hive is a good one, unfortunatly bee hives are not allowed to be kept in most schools due to allegies.

It seems that mudskippers are a no go should I wish to keep archer fish. Is this still the case if I keep Toxotes microlepis rather than Toxotes jaculatrix as these will grow to anywhere between 12 and 15cm?

Cheers,
Stuart.
 
Your problem with any insect is however fast they breed, they're unlikely to keep up with archerfish, even T. microlepis. You'd need a stick insect population that was producing an excess biomass of about, at a guess, 5-15 grammes per day. That would require hundreds and hundreds of stick insect adults.

You'd have a lot more luck with something lower down the food chain. Algae is easier to "breed" very quickly as it is plenty capable of doubling in quanity in a day, under strong lighting. So green algae could support daphnia and these could feed, say, killifish or dwarf mosquitofish.

Really, these closed system aquaria (a.k.a. microcosms) are very difficult to create. There's a book that is exclusively about the concept called "Dynamic Aquaria" and while not a "cookbook" certainly lays out the science and gives examples of working systems. It's a difficult book to read though.

Cheers,

Neale
 
Dynamic Aquaria - cheers nmonks - have just ordered a copy now.

I intend to have an aquatic food chain as you describe - I just want the archer fish to have something to shoot at :)

As for hundreds of stick insect adults - this is not a problem!
 
I think the idea is absolutely great.
Whatever problems there are in the design, It would be great to see it planned, worked out and setup.

I'm sure you'd also be able to get your students involved too. A bit of food chain research :)

As an idea, would the insects have to be the sole food source? why not set it up with the insects as a supplementary source, although feeding would be needed, I wouldn't see it as a major drawback.

I'm getting carried away here - leaf cutter ants... now that would be cool, you'd get to see them do their thing too, carrying bits of leaf from one side to the other...

Good luck and dont give up the plan ;)
 
Thanks for the kind words SmithRC,

no - the insects do not need to be the sole source of food - as mentioned before I just want something for the archer fish to take pot shots at.

I've looked into leaf cutter before but they don't take to being eaten very kindly and use the mandibles, stinger and teeth to damage the oesophagus of any predators. So they could cause problems for the archer fish.

It’s potentially quite an exciting project as the school are moving into a new building next year so this display could be homed in a specifically built room where students can vies it from both the corridor as well as my lab.

Cheers,
Stuart.
 
that sounds like a really interesting project.

nothing to add science wise thats all gone over my head, but do a journal thing while your setting it up with loads of pics, I'd love to see :D
 
Miss Wiggle - A journal - what a great idea. I should also get some webcams as well...

Brilliant - keep the ideas and advice rolling in please.

I will have to get my student to write to some lfs asking for sponsorship in the hope of getting some freebees :D
 
Well it sounds like a great idea :good: and you seem to want archer fish quite bad, do you like them a lot?

Austin
 
What about a risk of overfeeding? In the wild they really have to hunt, but in your tank there it will be like "shooting stickbugs in a barrel", right? My thinking is they'd just eat all day until they finally die... but from everyone's feedback it sounds like my logic isn't correct. I'd just setup a nice paludarium and dose it with a hand full of crickets, stickbugs, roaches, etc. and they'd be eaten throughout the day for people to view.

If you're having a new corridor built I'd also get a larger tank in the process. I'd go with something around 200G to house 7 T. microlepis. Obtain them as juvenilles and they'll have all the space they need for a really long time. My T. jaculatrix have probably only shown a 35-50% increase in size in the last year which seems slow to me for a fish that grows to be 10" long.

Furthermore, I think mangroves are more drama than their worth. They typically will not grow the desired prop roots without a tidal system and are surprisingly sensitive to condition changes... as saplings anyway.
 
Also I don't know anything about the fish but if you have it facing the hall you would need lots of hiding places and fish that wouldn't scare easy, don't know if those fish are, just some thoughts.
 
atmmachine said:
Also I don't know anything about the fish but if you have it facing the hall you would need lots of hiding places and fish that wouldn't scare easy, don't know if those fish are, just some thoughts.
Click to expand...

Mine weren't very skittish after a few months of living in my livingroom. All the movement outside of their tank was so normal to them that they didn't seem to feel any stress over it, yet they always had somewhere to hide. Archers commonly hide under the shadows of overhanging foliage, structures, branches, etc. I had to move them out of my livingroom and into a low-traffic area. After a few months of that I've noticed that my archers will come out to feed, but will keep their distance and often hide from people who walk by.

If viewable from both sides I'd make only half of the tank viewable(opposite sides) from either side, partially blocking view with large pieces of driftwood, yet giving a clear diagonal view. This would let the archers decide which side they choose to hide on based on the room/hall activity.
 
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