Increasing The Growth In My New Planted Tank

[scouse_andy]

I've had my tank planted up for about three weeks now. I got a whole collection of plants from Greenline Aquatics.

I have a Juwel Rio 240 with 2 Arcadia T8 bulbs with reflectors - one 38W Freshwater and one 38W tropical.

I have a Pro Aqua Plant fertiliser bag in the filter column and silica sand substrate with no fertiliser added.

My plants are still alive but aren't exactly flourishing at the moment. The Creeping Jenny, Elodea and Hygro Polysperma are doing OK but the rest is not doing much. The Straight Vallis at the back has all but died.

I am also suffering a bit of an algae problem as the tank has just finished cycling.

I'm not exactly flush for cash at the moment, having recently bought the tank, structured background, decoration etc. I'm sure you've all been there!

I am wondering what I can do at limited expense to improve growth and outcompete the algae.

As far as lighting goes, is there a simple and relatively cheap way to get things up to 2 wpg? One option, in the long-run, would be to get two T5 Plant Pro bulbs at 54 watts each with a new light bar (not cheap) - is this a good idea? In the short/medium term is there any point in getting a light controller for about 20 quid and an extra t8 freshwater bulb and clipping it to one of the 2 existing bulbs I have on my multilux system? I've seen a couple of threads and pictures on this and I think that's how people have done it.... Is there another way of getting up to about 2 wpg that I have not considered?

Secondly, I realise that I need to get a Co2 system into the tank to improve things. I've read good things on here about the Nutrafin system. I have a 240 litre aquarium so, as I understand it, I would need two of these. Is this right?

I have read about DIY kits but I think I can just about stretch to the real deal here. Can somebody please tell me how to ensure the Co2 is released for part of the day (2 hours before light and 2 hours before dark as I understand it) and then turned off at night... Is it a mains powered kit (in which case I can obviously buy another timer switch) or is there another way you have to do it?

Finally, given my relative lack of funds, would the Co2 still be pretty effective with my light as it is (76 watts in a 65 gallon tank - 1.17 wpg) or is it really a case that my plants NEED both and by just doing one or the other I'm still on a hiding to nothing?

Sorry for all the questions but I am new to this and keen to get things right.

Thanks in anticipation for all your help.

Andy.

 

[14gtr14]

first of all i'd buy some laterite to mix in with the sand. this is pprobably the reason why alot of your plants are dying- silica sand is inert so you'll need to add fert yourself.

 

[scouse_andy]

Is this the case even if I'm using the Pro Aqua plant fertiliser bags?

 

[aaronc]

Hi Andy

If you want to go down the CO2 route then ideally you would need to at least double your lighting to get the best from it. Co2 will help with your current lighting but you will hit a wall where the plants will need more light to really flourish.

If you don't have the money at present then why not stick with some low light plants to give you the chance to get all the high tech kit, if you want to go down that route that is

HTH

Aaron

 

[SuperColey1]

I would suggest that if you are struggling with algae now than upping the lighting is the last thing you would want to do.

You need to get on top of the algae first because just as plants like light so does algae, and if algae is winning the battle now then it will definately become a problem with more lighting.

In you photo there doesn't seem to be a lot of plants really. You should be aiming for 75% of the substrate planted with fast growers like Ludwigia, Hygrophylia, Cabomba, Elodia/Egeria etc. Java Ferns are slow growers.

Co2 benefits at any lighting level because the plants wil just take what they need. It is true that they will take more if the lighting is higher, but they will also use more Nutrients. Most plants don't need more light to flourish, it just makes them grow faster and in some cases go different colours.

Although it is good to add a Nutrient rich substrate it is not necessary. JamesC uses an inert substrate and look at his tank.

Also Tom Barr has written a few times that it doesn't matter if the nutrients are supplied through the water column or through the substrate.

Therefore I would leave your tank as it is but fully plant it. Add a DIY or Nutrafin CO2 if you wish as this can only help, and wait for the plants to outcompete the algae.

On Tom's website there is a section on Low Light Non CO2 tanks which would be a worthwhile read for you, but don't make the mistake that a lot of people are doing at the moment and rushing in and ramming the lighting up before they know what they are doing. Much like any hobby, its a learning curve and a frustrating one at that, but its better to take it slowly rather than have to strip your tank down every 4 weeks when it all goes wrong.

Andy

 

[scouse_andy]

Thanks for the helpful advice. You're right about being patient and doing things one step at a time. I think I will leave the lighting as it is in that case. I will probably get some more plants from Greenline to just about double the number I have in there. I think I'll go for some more Elodea and Hygro Polysperma. I haven't currently got any cabomba. Are there different species of Cabomba or just the one?

Can anyone recommend any more fast going plants for my current situation?

I'll go for a nutrafin CO2 kit, would one do or should I get two at the same time? I've been reading up more on these and it seems you need a solenoid to turn off CO2 at night, is this supplied with the kit?

Cheers for all your help.

 

[nry]

The solenoid is only relevant for pressurised CO2, the Nutrafin kit (which to be honest you can make your own from pop-bottles, airline tubing and a £10 diffuser) has no method of turning off at night, but there is usually no need to even consider it with a yeast-based system (which the Nutrafin and other similar products are). Have a read of the pinned thread on the Nutrafin kit.

 

[scouse_andy]

Thanks for this. I've been having a good read through there this morning but there was so much to take in I got a bit confused!

Whereabouts would I pick up a diffuser from? I take it that's the bubble ladder or equivalent...?

 

[nry]

Diffusers:

http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?...p;cPath=196_197

And yep, equivalent to a ladder, in that it aids the job of getting CO2 into the water.

 

[scouse_andy]

I'm going to try a DIY CO2 kit for my aquarium then. As it is 240 litres am I better to set up two of these CO2 kits? If I do, does that mean that I need to buy two diffusers or can I use a T-valve and put both co2 kits into the same diffuser. I was looking on Aquaessentials and saw this diffuser

http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?...products_id=744

Does anybody know if it's any good or can recommend me another one?

Once I've got the CO2 up and running I am going to plant far more heavily with Hygro Polysperma, Green Cabomba, Elodea, Meixcan Oak Leaf and Hornwort as I believe these are all fast growing plants.

 

[SuperColey1]

The problem with your size of tank is getting a diffusor that will actually work with DIY whilst at the same time being able to diffuse enough CO2 to spread through the tank.

The diffusor below is the same size as the AE one and if you make him an offer approx 15% less than the buy it now price he will accept (normally) otherwise you can just buy it now.

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rhinox-5000-Co2-diff...oQQcmdZViewItem

This is the diffusor I use and worked very well with the DIY as well as when I went pressurised (too well in fact with pressurised) although it is only meant for 20-40 gallons, it is about the best bet for a larger tank as from experience it OD'd my 125Ltr when my needle valve went wappy on my pressurised setup and killed all my fish and shrimp. You will find it almost impossible to get enough CO2 from DIY in a 240 to overdose so don't let this worry you.

With the solenoid valve the reason the majority (some don't use it) of pressurised users have it is:

1 - It saves wasting CO2 at night
2 - It means you can get the CO2 into the tank at the time when the plants need it.
3 - As a secondary safety measure.

If you were to use a solenoid valve on DIY then you would probably wake up to find either exploded bottles or more likely a huge mess where they were as the pressure drove the CO2 hose off the nipple in the night and the mixture leaked out.

One thing I keep reading in the last few months is how the bottles SHOULD be above the diffusor and that the reason is to stop the mixture running down the line to the tank. This is wrong!
If the mixture is above the tank it is more likely to do this whereas if it is below the tank it is more likely to syphon water down into the cannister.

If setup properly neither of these things will happen.

The reason some people put the cannisters above the tank is to keep the mixture warm using the heat from their lights to speed up the mixture's performance. (This will of course mean that the mixture runs out earlier).

I had mine on top for a time but once I bought a cabinet they went below into the cabinet.

People are also talking about using a Non Return Valve (NRV)! this will not stop the mixture getting into the tank, because if you had it that way round it would also stop CO2 getting into the tank. It will let CO2 (and anything else) into the tank but stop water coming down the pipe (especially important when using pressurised) As I said earlier if you set the kit up properly you shouldn't get these problems.

The main reason for people having this problem is that they put too much yeast in. ½ a teaspoon (as was originally stated in the pin) is plenty for the mix to last a week for Nutrafins. (a 2 Ltr would need equivalent of about 1¼ teaspoons) These are proper measuring teaspoons.

Anyway good luck and please take some of the advice that is being given out with an open mind as some of it seems to be directing people to buy equipment they do not need and will not fulfill the purpose intended (in the case of the NRV definately)

Andy

 

[scouse_andy]

Thanks for the link and all your advice there. I was planning on keeping the CO2 unit in the cabinet underneath too. Just to clarify, I would need a non-return valve in that case to stop the risk of water siphoning back from the tank into the CO2 unit, just as I use a non-return valve on my air pump line to avoid water getting into the electrics. Is this right?

Just looked at your link in detail and seen that the diffuser is not suitable for yeast systems.... back to the drawing board!

Does anybody know a good diffuser for this size of tank?

What about this one?

http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?...products_id=678

 

[SuperColey1]

It is OK for Yeast systems. The plonker has advertised Rhinox 2000 and then copied in the Rhinox 5000 details (which is pressurised only)

I use the following NRV and bubble counter

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Gamba-XII-Co2-bubble...oQQcmdZViewItem

The NRV and bubble counter aren't overly necessary with yeast based kits. As long as CO2 is forcing its way up the tube then water should never be able to run down. I never had a problem pre NRV. again its peice of mind if youre worried about a water spillage due to CO2 running down.

On those Rhinox diffusors the 1000 and 2000 are OK for yeast based systems while the 5000 needs more pressure than a yeast kit will produce.

There is a bargain pressurised unit on ebay finishes tomorrow, with these you buy disposable cylinders that should last more than a month probably a lot longer, in low light. I use disposable because I can't for the life of me find any companies that will refill any cannister without it being theirs and charging rental on the cannister.

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...A:IT&ih=007

Andy

 

[scouse_andy]

Thanks very much for all this info. I am getting the Rhinox 2000 diffuser. Does the Gamba XII bubble counter change colour to indicate pH and therefore CO2 levels or does it just allow you to count the bubbles more easily?

Cheers, Andy.

 

[SuperColey1]

You connect the Non return valve (NRV) to the bubble counter (BC) with some hose (BC tank side). fill the BC with water and then you can see the bubbles come through the water thus enabling you to count them. connect the BC to the diffusor with hose so that the BC and NRV are hanging down the back of the tank. Connect the NRV with hose to the CO2 cannister or T-piece if you use more than one.

(Make sure the NRV is the right way up i.e. slanted entry down and rounded/flat exit up)

The coloured part you can see on the NRV is the valve (mine is red). If you blow in the pipe one end it will release the air out the other end. If you blow the other end your head increases in pressure as you keep blowing and explodes. lol

Make sure AM know you want the 2000 if their adverts are wrong, you don't want to receive a 5000.

Takes 7-10 days for delivery but I've found the plants and equipment are really good quality (although some others haven't been so lucky with their plants)

andy