Ich In A Planted Tank, More Challenging?

[Rlon35]

I have had a garlic and raised temp resistent ick case in my tank. I have added very conservative amounts of salt. I have loaches and snails that I have raised from babyhood. I am raising the temperature a degree every few hours. I am at 81 now. I am at the point where I am considering medications? But, what is the most effective and safe ick medication for a tank comprised of black neons, clown loaches, freshwater clams, slails, and, most importantly, PLANTS??

 

[aaronnorth]

it depends on the Med, salt doesnt help them either (unless they can stand brackish water). i always refer to this:

http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/...ment_finder.php

 

[Colin_T]

Copper and malachite green are the best for killing ich. But copper will kill the inverts, shrimp and clams, so they will need to be moved to another tank until after treatment. The whitespot parasite won't live on shrimp or clams so it won't reinfect the tank afterwards.
If you use copper & malachite at half strength it will be safe for the loaches. At full strength it should be fine for the plants.

You can raise the water temperature a few degrees (maximum temp is about 30C), increasing it speeds up the parasite’s lifecycle. This causes it to develop quicker and die off sooner. However, the temp should only be raised after the medication has been added to the tank. If you turn the temp up and don't have medication in the water then the disease organisms grow faster and spread more rapidly, causing more damage to the fish. If you can get the temp to 32C it might kill the parasites.

Increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise the oxygen levels in the tank. Medications and high temperatures reduce the oxygen carrying capacity of the water, so the more surface turbulence the higher the oxygen levels will be.

You don't have to increase or change the temperature to treat the fish. I often leave the temp at about 26C and just treat the fish for about 10-14 days. "Waterlife Myxazin" will treat it and is meant to be safe for inverts like shrimp. It is also safe for loaches and plants.

Keep treating the fish for a week after the spots have gone. The whitespot parasite has 3 stages to its lifecycle.
1) the white spots on the fish
2) 2) the spots fall off the fish and multiply in the gravel
3) 3) the cysts in the gravel rupture open releasing thousands of new parasites to re-infect the fish.
The parasite can only be killed during the 3rd stage when they are free swimming and before they attach to a fish.

To work out the volume of water in the tank
measure Length x Width x Height in cm
divide by 1000
equals volume in litres

When measuring the height, measure from the top of the gravel to the top of the water level. If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove them before measuring the height.

Before you treat the tank do a 50% water change and complete gravel clean. This will reduce the gunk in the tank and allow the medication to work more effectively. It will also lower the pathogen count in the water and mean there are less nasties around to infect the fish.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating otherwise it will absorb the medication out of the water.

 

[Rlon35]

Well, my black neons just keep dying. In the end, I decided to keep the tank at 82 degrees and continue feeding with garlic, while adding an organic ich attack made by Kordon. I have a feeling the issue is more complicated than white spot. The black neons are the only ones with spots, and they seem really bloated before they die, gasping for air. All my other fish seem fine, and I even have scaleless fish in their (Clown Loaches). Could their be an internal problem specific to the neons, spreading only throughout them?

 

[aaronnorth]

it could be neon tetra disease although i am unsure of symptons. better post this in emergencies, they will help you better, PM a mod to move it.

 

[Colin_T]

The black neons are stressed out that is why they have ich and the others don't. They are gasping at the surface because the parasite gets onto the gill filaments and damages them. Once this happens the gills are no longer able to take in oxygen and the fish slowly suffocate. You need to put a proper medication in the tank to kill the parasite otherwise it will remain there and any time a fish becomes stressed you will have another outbreak.
Wardley's Triple Sulpha works on most forms of whitespot as does Waterlife Myxazin and both are safe for plants.

 

[Rlon35]

The black neons are stressed out that is why they have ich and the others don't. They are gasping at the surface because the parasite gets onto the gill filaments and damages them. Once this happens the gills are no longer able to take in oxygen and the fish slowly suffocate. You need to put a proper medication in the tank to kill the parasite otherwise it will remain there and any time a fish becomes stressed you will have another outbreak.
Wardley's Triple Sulpha works on most forms of whitespot as does Waterlife Myxazin and both are safe for plants.

^^^^^^^^^

The gaint Danios may be stressing the neons out. I treated a bacterial infection weeks ago, and now I notice that I have pop eye on one of my pearl gouramis. He looks like a goner to. What t5he heck do I do at this point? I was prepared to contunue with my present course of treatment for ick, but with bacterial complications, I don't know what to do. Any suggestions? I finally get my tank near perfect, and all hell breaks loose with my fish...uggh!

 

[Colin_T]

Many whitespot medications treat bacteria as well. Waterlife Myxazin and Wardley's Triple Sulpha treat both problems. However, Triple Sulpha might not work on some strains of Oodinium (Velvet). Whitespot is bigger than Velvet but they cause the same problem.

Bacterial infections are often associated with a build up of organic matter in the tank. Dirty gravel and clogged up filters are the biggest cause. I know you have a plant tank but perhaps try gravel cleaning the substrate to remove some of the gunk. Don't bother about gravel cleaning where the plants are, just try to do any areas that are free of plants. Check to see if there is any rubbish building up behind some rocks, wood, or around the plants at the back of the tank. Make sure the filter is clean and working correctly.

Bacteria grow faster in warm water. Try increasing the surface turbulence and water movement in the tank. This can help the fish and might flush out any gunk that is trapped among the plants.

 

[Rlon35]

Many whitespot medications treat bacteria as well. Waterlife Myxazin and Wardley's Triple Sulpha treat both problems. However, Triple Sulpha might not work on some strains of Oodinium (Velvet). Whitespot is bigger than Velvet but they cause the same problem.

Bacterial infections are often associated with a build up of organic matter in the tank. Dirty gravel and clogged up filters are the biggest cause. I know you have a plant tank but perhaps try gravel cleaning the substrate to remove some of the gunk. Don't bother about gravel cleaning where the plants are, just try to do any areas that are free of plants. Check to see if there is any rubbish building up behind some rocks, wood, or around the plants at the back of the tank. Make sure the filter is clean and working correctly.

Bacteria grow faster in warm water. Try increasing the surface turbulence and water movement in the tank. This can help the fish and might flush out any gunk that is trapped among the plants.

^^^^^^^^^^

Update...I have been dosing the tank with Kordon Ich Attack (organic) for the last three days. I have the temp at 82.5. I added a small amount of salt, and I am soaking some food in garlic as I give it. Today, I started treating with a Rally Ruby Reef product, as one of my Pearl Gouramis now has Pop Eye, abnd this product is safe for plants. I am down to three black neons (out of 13), having just euthanized one who was near death. I have the lights off the majority of the time, running much air into the tank, before turning them back on to give my plants some light. I am not going to do the water change until 24 hours after the Rally treatment is stopped. Just before the major problems exacerbated, I had done a 50 percent water change. I'll give it two more days of treatment, then do 25 percent water changes daily for a few days. I'll also sterilize my bucket, nets, scrapers, baster, gravel vac, etc. I have never had an issue this bad before. Will my plans work, ya think? I hate seeing my fish with pop eye....for some reason, that one really bothers me.

 

[hellohefalump]

I know you're not meant to use Malachite Green with loaches or naked cats, but when I worked at my LFS, I used to give them a reduced dose (1/4-1/2) and it didn't kill them.

I don't know about the plants though.

 

[Colin_T]

Having the lights off doesn’t make any difference when you treat whitespot or bacterial infections. In fact most bacteria do better in dark conditions. You are better off leaving the lights on like they normally are. That way the fish are less stressed because they will be getting the same light they normally do.
The only reason to reduce the lighting is if the medication gets destroyed by light. Then treating the tank with the lights off is recommended, however I don’t know of any fish medications that are like that.

 

[Rlon35]

Yeah...I understand about the lights, and thanks for all of your feedback Colin. When I turn my lights off, the oxygen pumps out, so that was primarily why I was doing that. I had also read a superstition that Ich has difficulty 'finding' the host in dark tanks (didn't really belive that one). All signs of Ich are gone, but my gourami still has pop eye (I am continuing with Ich treatment at high temp, and I will do one or tw more days of dosing anti-bact.). BUT, I lost my festivum cichlid this morning, to an unknown cause (My favorite fish!). He did get stuck in the crease between my Easter Island ornament and a hole in my driftwood, but I don't know that this was the cause of death. I could see no visible signs of infection, but he had been looking rather sluggish. To make matters worse, a hurricane is headed our way. I do have the necessary aeration equiptment if the power is to go off, but considering all of the problems I am having, this is a really bad time for this threat. I am going to dose the tank for a few more days, followed by daily 25-40 percent water changes daily for a few days. The only good news...a new LFS has opened near me, and it is very convenient. The staff is nice (not arrogant!), and the owner is an incredible looking young woman. You have to find the positive wehre you can when your fish are dying...lol.

 

[Colin_T]

The only good news...a new LFS has opened near me, and it is very convenient. The staff is nice (not arrogant!), and the owner is an incredible looking young woman. You have to find the positive where you can when your fish are dying...lol.

lol, oh dear, I can't help but laugh at that. All the crap that is happening and you're checking out a shop chickie

bloody hurricanes, nothing but trouble.

Gotcha regarding the light and pump. Is there any way of running the pump separately to the lights?

 

[Rlon35]

Update....tank seems stable, although I lost the Pearl that had pop eye. Will continue the treatment full through. Casualties = 10 black neons, 1 festivum cichlid, 1 pearl gourami. Worst losses I have suffered with this tank...