There has been an insightful thread on this topic but I’m left with one question. Is there any safe souce of rainbow fish available to the hobbyist where TB is not an issue?
I need the executive summary on rainbow fish and TB
- Thread starter gwand
- Start date
I will say "no". i have gotten them from great breeders, and yet they've been afflicted. From reputable farms - the same. Possibly, going to collect them might work, depending on where you collect.
I love rainbows, but I have stopped keeping them.
I love rainbows, but I have stopped keeping them.
Same as what Gary said. Basically if the rainbowfish has been in an aquarium that has had any fish, plant, shrimp, snail, ornament or even water or gravel from a fish farm or pet shop, there's a chance the rainbowfish will have Fish TB (Mycobacteria). This is due to the Mycobacteria being able to survive in the aquarium for years and not dying from lack of a host, chlorinated tap water, standard aquarium medications, or even drying out for a few months.
Wild caught fish put into clean tanks with clean substrate, filters, heaters, plants, etc, are probably free of the disease. However, if you contaminate the tank with plants, gravel cleaner or anything else, you will eventually lose the fish to it.
Most people that keep rainbowfish try not to think about it and just remove the bodies when they bloat up or die.
Some people get eggs instead of fish and they hatch the eggs in a clean container of dechlorinated tap water. As soon as the fry swim around the surface, they scoop them out with a spoon and move them into a clean rearing tank. This can sometimes give you clean disease free fish but the Mycobacteria have been found on the outside of fish eggs so it's not 100% guaranteed. But it's a good option and the easiest way to do this is to breed fish in tanks with artificial mops that don't touch the bottom. Pick the eggs off the mop each day and put the eggs into a clean bucket of water to hatch.
If you know someone who has had their rainbowfish for more than 3 years and haven't lost any to TB, then their fish are probably clean and you could get eggs from them.
Wild caught fish put into clean tanks with clean substrate, filters, heaters, plants, etc, are probably free of the disease. However, if you contaminate the tank with plants, gravel cleaner or anything else, you will eventually lose the fish to it.
Most people that keep rainbowfish try not to think about it and just remove the bodies when they bloat up or die.
Some people get eggs instead of fish and they hatch the eggs in a clean container of dechlorinated tap water. As soon as the fry swim around the surface, they scoop them out with a spoon and move them into a clean rearing tank. This can sometimes give you clean disease free fish but the Mycobacteria have been found on the outside of fish eggs so it's not 100% guaranteed. But it's a good option and the easiest way to do this is to breed fish in tanks with artificial mops that don't touch the bottom. Pick the eggs off the mop each day and put the eggs into a clean bucket of water to hatch.
If you know someone who has had their rainbowfish for more than 3 years and haven't lost any to TB, then their fish are probably clean and you could get eggs from them.
I'll add one thing that's supposed to work, but didn't for me - which is to buy eggs and hatch and raise them with a uv sterilizer filtering the water. I absolutely love Melanotaenia duboulayi and tried to save my dubs that way, but the fry grew into beautiful adults and promptly died of tb.
But it could work for others - didn't for me.
But it could work for others - didn't for me.
OP
OP
Do you agree with Google Gemini AI. I asked the program, “Is the tuberculosis bacteria in all aquarium water and only susceptible or immune compromised fish get mycobacteriosis”? I know these AIs make mistakes.
AI says: This is an excellent question that gets to the heart of why mycobacteriosis is such a persistent problem in the aquarium hobby. The short answer is that yes, mycobacteria are widely considered to be present in virtually all aquarium environments.However, the disease itself, mycobacteriosis, is not a given for every fish.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Mycobacteria are Ubiquitous in Aquatic Environments
- Environmental Bacteria: The mycobacteria species that cause disease in fish are known as "nontuberculous mycobacteria" (NTM). Unlike the bacteria that cause human tuberculosis, these bacteria are naturally found in the environment, including soil, lakes, and, yes, tap water.
- Biofilms: These bacteria live and thrive in the biofilms that form on aquarium surfaces, such as the filter media, substrate, plants, and glass. They are part of the natural "flora" of an established aquarium. One study found that 75% of water samples from decorative aquariums were positive for Mycobacterium species.
- Transmission: Fish are exposed to the bacteria constantly through their environment, primarily by ingesting contaminated food or water.
- Not All Infections Become Disease: Just because a fish is exposed to and even infected with mycobacteria doesn't mean it will develop the disease, mycobacteriosis. A fish's healthy immune system can often fight off the bacteria or keep it in check, preventing it from causing the characteristic symptoms.
- Compromised Immune Systems: The disease typically manifests when a fish's immune system is weakened.Factors that can compromise a fish's health and make it susceptible to mycobacteriosis include:
- Poor Water Quality: Low dissolved oxygen, low pH, and high organic loads (from uneaten food or waste) can favor the growth of mycobacteria and stress fish.
- Stress: Anything that stresses a fish, such as overcrowding, bullying, or incompatible tank mates, can weaken its immune response.
- Poor Nutrition: A lack of a varied and nutritious diet can make a fish more vulnerable to illness.
- Genetics: Some species (like rainbowfish) and even specific genetic lines of fish may be more prone to the disease.
- Old Age: Older fish often have weaker immune systems and are more likely to succumb to the disease.
Google AI regularly makes mistakes. It said I was a black guy in an American prison. There aren't many people with my surname (about 10 on the entire planet) and only one lives in the US and that is my sister and she ain't a black guy and she isn't in prison. 
Google AI also said there are no laws in Australia about burning our flag but there are laws about it and it is illegal to burn our flag.
Google AI is still learning how to destroy the world so might take a few years to get more accurate.
Fish don't need to have a compromised immune system to die from Mycobacteria (Fish TB). My rainbowfish were fed well and kept in perfect conditions and they died from TB at about 3 years of age (rainbows can live 9-10 years). The thing with Fish TB is it grows really slowly. It takes 1-3 years for the Mycobacterial granulomas to get big enough in rainbowfish, and do enough damage to a fish's internal organ to cause that organ to fail. Small fish die sooner because their internal organs are smaller and it takes fewer Mycobacteria cells to destroy the small organs. Bigger fish have bigger organs and it takes longer for the Mycobacteria cells to build up in numbers and damage the organ/s.
Mycobacteria is also affected by temperature and grows much slower in cold water compared to warm water. Most species of bacteria can double in number every few hours (filter bacteria doubles around every 12 hours) but Mycobacteria might double once a week. The colder the water, the slower it grows so a big cold water fish like a Koi Carp might carry Mycobacteria for 10 years before it dies from internal organ failure, especially if it lives in a cold climate where the water gets cold in winter. A small Cardinal tetra might die in 6-12 months if kept in a warm discus tank with a water temperature of 28C.
Google AI also said there are no laws in Australia about burning our flag but there are laws about it and it is illegal to burn our flag.
Google AI is still learning how to destroy the world so might take a few years to get more accurate.
Fish don't need to have a compromised immune system to die from Mycobacteria (Fish TB). My rainbowfish were fed well and kept in perfect conditions and they died from TB at about 3 years of age (rainbows can live 9-10 years). The thing with Fish TB is it grows really slowly. It takes 1-3 years for the Mycobacterial granulomas to get big enough in rainbowfish, and do enough damage to a fish's internal organ to cause that organ to fail. Small fish die sooner because their internal organs are smaller and it takes fewer Mycobacteria cells to destroy the small organs. Bigger fish have bigger organs and it takes longer for the Mycobacteria cells to build up in numbers and damage the organ/s.
Mycobacteria is also affected by temperature and grows much slower in cold water compared to warm water. Most species of bacteria can double in number every few hours (filter bacteria doubles around every 12 hours) but Mycobacteria might double once a week. The colder the water, the slower it grows so a big cold water fish like a Koi Carp might carry Mycobacteria for 10 years before it dies from internal organ failure, especially if it lives in a cold climate where the water gets cold in winter. A small Cardinal tetra might die in 6-12 months if kept in a warm discus tank with a water temperature of 28C.
Mycobacter and disease Mycobacter aren't always the same thing. There's a nuance there our AI overlord isn't getting. If I recall correctly, our fish problem Myco are marinum and one other species, but there are way more than 2 species. We have to ask more precisely.
Almost all the good North American rainbow breeders keep their fish around 23-24 outside of when they breed them warmer. It slows the pathogen.
It's good to know you're never alone in this life. There's always a Mycobacter hanging around.
Almost all the good North American rainbow breeders keep their fish around 23-24 outside of when they breed them warmer. It slows the pathogen.
It's good to know you're never alone in this life. There's always a Mycobacter hanging around.
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