I Need Some Advice On Very Large Fish.

[Midnight Rose]

Hi,

I have no idea which section this should go in, so I hope this is ok.

I'm a lurker on here, so hi!

I've kept tropical (freshwater) fish for some time (about 15 years), but I've never had the urge to keep very large fish. I've just been asked for help with a tank that is 5 feet long. That's fine, except I'm sure the tank is way overstocked, as there is no swimming room!

Even if it's not overstocked I feel awful looking at all these fish in a teeny tank (for their size.)

I would like some advice on the species in the tank, what to do with them

I have a spare 6 foot tank but I was hoping to set up a big rainforest biotope tank, I don't really want to fill it with fish that aren't mine.

The fish are -

3 large oscars (I thought you kept these in pairs, but as I said I don't know much about large fish) that are about 10" each.

2 plecs of a very good size, I've only ever had dinky ones.

A smallish (half a foot maybe) catfish that looks like a pictus and a very very large (over a foot) pictus style catfish

I'm annoyed with the person that asked me for help, they know this, but I need some advice one what to do with these fish because I want to help them. I don't want to help the person particularly, I'm that annoyed, but I can't just walk away from these fish when they need help.

I'm very ethical when it comes to rehoming animals (I do a lot of rescue work with small animals of the furry kind) so I'm very concerned about rehoming these large fish to someone that just wants a large 'trophy' but can't cope with it (like has happened) I want these fishies to have a good life with someone that will love them! How do I go about homing fish like this?

I've no idea if the person that has them wants to sell or give away, I think they might want to keep some but is a 5 foot tank even big enough for one or two of these guys? The oscars seem lovely, quite friendly with people.

All help gratefully received, I hope I posted this in the right section.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hiya midnight rose, it's such a shame when people do this, there's unfortunatley rather a lot of large fish wanting good homes and not a lot of good homes for them to go to.

if you could get pictures of the catfish and plecs so that we can get an ID on the species that would help, need to know what you're dealing with.

what I'd suggest is that you get an ID on the fish, you then post in the buy, sell and swap forum and on aquarist classified that these fish are available for re-homing. The oscar's you'll probably shift relatively easily, the plecs perhaps easily, the catfish is the one that bothers me. Personally I would offer them up free of charge but only to a good home, so be prepared to ask the prospective buyers questions about they're set upa nd be prepared to say no if they don't have the right tank for the fish.

The catfish, I'm really hoping for your sake, is not a pangasius catfish, if it is then you'll have problems, these are absolute beasts of fishs which get far too big for the home aquarist, really there's only gonna be a handful of private owners in the country with tanks big enough for them. If that's the case you'd need to approach local sealife centres/public aquariums and see if they have room, be prepared for some negative responses though as most of them are inundated with requests for re-homing these species... they can't say yes to everyone I have no clue why this fish is in the trade at all.

If you're prepared to take some of the fish temporarily to give them some more space then good for you, but I can understand you not wanting to surrender your planned biotope for them. Also you've got the chance that temporary could become permanenet if you can't find a home for them.

Tough situation but your first port of call is to get a definate ID to make sure you know exactly what you are up against.

 

[Midnight Rose]

Thanks very much, that reply was really helpful. I will be able to get some pictures towards the end of this week.

As for the catfish, I know it's not a red tailed and that's about it!

I just googled pangasius....


It looks exactly like that..... please tell me there are smaller versions. What on earth am I going to do with it?! Oh the poor fishy! That should be in the wild.

It looks like this...

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yup that's a pangasius, otherwise known as iridescent shark. they are pretty common in the trade, as 3/4" babies they are cute as hell, but they grow to be absolute monsters http/www.fishforums.net/content/Other-Ca...18/Pangasiidae/

sadly it's all too predictable that this catfish would be one.

they really have no place in the aquarium trade, however that's a discussion for another day.

The bad news is, grown up panagsius are hard to shift, there's loads of them around and (as you can guess) not many people with tanks big enough for them.

put an ad on the buy, sell, swap forum offering him to a good home, likewise on aquarist classified and start ringing round public aquariums. However I have to warn you the chances of finding a home are slim (don't mean to be negative, just realistic) and you are then faced with a tough choice, what do you do with a big fish that you can't keep? inevitably opinions will differ wildly, obviously you should attempt to get the owner to take some responsibility and invest in a monster tank for this fella, however i get the sneaking suspicion that won't happen. So you can try and keep him yourself, he'll need a tank significantly bigger tank than your 6 foot one, no one could blame you for not having the space and money for such a big undertaking. Eventually some people will say that because no one can look after the fish properly the kindest thing to do for it is to euthanaise it. tough call and ultimatley a decision that no one can make for you.

sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I've no idea if the person that has them wants to sell or give away, I think they might want to keep some but is a 5 foot tank even big enough for one or two of these guys? The oscars seem lovely, quite friendly with people.

missed this question, can you give us the other dimensions of the tank. they may be able to keep a big plec and an oscar or something like that.

a good guideline to use for large fish (although this is a guideline, not a rule, there are exceptions) is that the tank should be 4 times their length and 1.5 times for the width and height. So if the fish is 1 foot long, then a tank 4'x1.5'x1.5' is a minimum for it.

oscars should be kept either singularly, in a pair (and not just two oscars, a proper breeding pair otherwise they'll kill each other) or a group of 6+. Unless the tank is 5'x5'x5' or something like that then they don't have room for all 4 of them, if the tank footprint is 5'x2' then they probably havce room for a pair, assuming that two of the fish have properly paired off.

You could perhaps convince them by offering up alternatives, so re-home all the fish bar 1 decent sized plec and 1 oscar, then get some other smaller new world cichlids to go with them, firemouths, convicts, acara's etc. some really pretty and interesting fish that are more suited to the tank size.

 

[Midnight Rose]

Thanks and don't worry. I was wondering about euthanasia myself, how do you euthanaise a fish? How long to they take to grow? Do I have a bit of time to try and rehome them? (There are two I think....one is much smaller)

Unfortunately, if I tell the person to sort out their own mess they will probably just stick them in a lake to freeze to death or hit it with a sledge hammer....

I have the space for a very very big tank but not the money to run it or have it built! I would love one though, believe me.

I will put an add in they buy, sell and swap section and I'll phone around public aquaria, I've just emailed syon house. I'm sure you know about their aquatic bit, I hope they still have it. I loved it there when I was younger. I'm hoping they might have some ideas as they've got a lot of rescue large fish there.

Thanks again, you've been very helpful. I'll come back with some photos later!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

considering they've been in this tank for god knows how long, i don't think it'll matter if you take a month or so trying to find a decent home for them before looking seriously into euthanasia.

there's a number of methods to use to euthnaise fish and anytime the topic is bought up there's some lively debate about how to do it.

My personal view is that the quickest method is the best, unfortunately the quickest methods are usually gory, they include quickly and decisivly cutting their head off or smashing they're head in with a brick. not nice to do and there's potential to go horribly wrong and cause a lot of pain, however if you get it right the fish will die instantly and therefore not suffer for any period of time.

another method is clove oil, you get a spare bucket/tank/bowl (whatevers suitable for size fo fish) put tank and water and some oil of cloves in and put the fish in, supposedly it gently puts the fish to sleep and they then die peacefully. however there is a lot of debate over weather this is actually true or not and what pain (if any) the fish experiences.

putting it into freezing water is also used, as with oil of cloves, it allegedly puts the fish into a deep sleep and they then die peacefully, again this is very much disputed.

To be quite honest, with a fish of that size, i would find a vet prepared to do it for me and leave it in their hands.

 

[Midnight Rose]

missed this question, can you give us the other dimensions of the tank <snip> Unless the tank is 5'x5'x5' or something like that then they don't have room for all 4 of them

Hee hee! That size it is not! It's 5'x1.5'x2' so not all that big, unless you're a neon tetra...


ETA: I'm a scientist so not adverse to gore and death, I'd just hate to do it badly. The vet sounds like the way I will go tbh, but if you felt that cutting it's head off swiftly was the quickest way for the fish I'm happy to do that. Aren't they edible too? (sorry, that's a baaaaad taste joke...*blushes*)

 

[Miss Wiggle]

OK, so the tanks just shy of 100gallons

they can have 1 oscar and 1 medium-large plec in there along with a few other smaller catfish/loaches or NW cichlids.

rest of the fish have to go.

 

[Midnight Rose]

Thanks, you've been an absolute star.

I'm not looking forward to the embarassment of phoning up public aquaria! They'll think it was me that's done this to the fish, oh well. Needs must and all that.

I'm going to try and get them to give me the whole tank, forever. That takes away their ability to just restock it (they could buy another tank but hopefully that's a bit expensive and will put them off) and will get the fish out.

Thanks again. I'll let you know how it all goes, I'm going to see them on thursday so should have some pictures by the weekend.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

missed this question, can you give us the other dimensions of the tank <snip> Unless the tank is 5'x5'x5' or something like that then they don't have room for all 4 of them

Hee hee! That size it is not! It's 5'x1.5'x2' so not all that big, unless you're a neon tetra...


ETA: I'm a scientist so not adverse to gore and death, I'd just hate to do it badly. The vet sounds like the way I will go tbh, but if you felt that cutting it's head off swiftly was the quickest way for the fish I'm happy to do that. Aren't they edible too? (sorry, that's a baaaaad taste joke...*blushes*)

personally i'd go to a vet but that's for two reasons

1 - my local vet treats fish (not a lot of them do), so it's easy and I know they would be in good trained hands
2 - i'm sqeamish and would probably make a right old mess of the poor fish.

for smaller fish my other half has euthanaised them with this method before, personally I haven't. I would do it if pushed, but for us it's just easier for Ian to do it for me! Luckily I've never had to euthanaise a big fish.

Really I'd say do some research, read the scientific reasons behind my comments above (if you just search this forum for 'euthanasia' you'll find some informative topics, they do get a bit lively as you can imagine, everyone wants to do the best for the fish and unfortunatley not a lot of vets will treat fish so we have to deal with these situations ourselves.

If you're gonna go the gory route make sure you are well prepared first, have a place to do it set up, knife sharpened, someone on hand to hold the fish steady... etc etc etc. If you get it wrong you can end up just butchering the poor thing and causing a great deal of pain.

Thanks, you've been an absolute star.

I'm not looking forward to the embarassment of phoning up public aquaria! They'll think it was me that's done this to the fish, oh well. Needs must and all that.

I'm going to try and get them to give me the whole tank, forever. That takes away their ability to just restock it (they could buy another tank but hopefully that's a bit expensive and will put them off) and will get the fish out.

Thanks again. I'll let you know how it all goes, I'm going to see them on thursday so should have some pictures by the weekend.

I agree that's the best thing to do.

Good for you, good luck with the public aquariums, do let us know how you get on.