I Haven't Seen A Cycle Go Quite Like This

[Seed]

When I first came to the forum I asked about cycling. Here is what is going on. I was cycling with two small feeders. I then decided to feed these to other fish and cycle the tank without fish as it seemed to be a much easier process.

I had a nitrite spike a long time ago, like weeks ago, but it was small, only 0.5 PPM which is really low. I've cycled tanks before and nitrites always went off the charts. I detected nitrites for only two days, and have not detected them again.

My ammonia levels never drop below 0.25 PPM (lowest detectable level on my card). Ever. I can raise them up to 4 PPM and they will drop down to 0.25 PPM within a day, but will never sink below that amount. It is inexplicable.


Nitrates have skyrocketed to 40 PPM, but I have done water changes to reduce the levels of these. I'm not overly concerned about nitrates at the moment.

The pH is 7.2, which is a decrease actually. My assumption is that as ammonia is processed, it releases H+ ions into the water, lowering pH. Since it is about 7 and well above 6 I am assuming the pH is fine for the cycle.


I am using Novaqua water dechlorinator for water changes, the API master test kit for water tests. My filtration on this tanks is the largest size whisper back mounted filtration system, which should be adequate for a 45 gallon tank.

Tank size is 45 gallons.


Any ideas as to why the ammonia won't completely process?



I should also mention, when I add the ammonia detoxifier Amquel+ to a sample of tank water, the ammonia reading will be zero, so I am pretty sure that the ammonia reading is accurate.

 

[chicklette]

Are your fish flashing or hanging near the surface of the tank?
How do you clean your filters? You should always rinse them gently in tank water and fill the filter back up with tank water.

I would carry out a lot of water changes and test your water every day. How often do you clean the tank and what is the amount you change?

How many fish do you have in your tank?

If you have an established tank you can get a stocking, grab a hunk and gravel from your established tank and tie it up and put it in the bottom of the tank. You can also use filters media from your established tank. For now make sure you feed your fish lightly.

 

[Seed]

There are zero fish in the tank as I am cycling it without fish at the moment. I did seed the tank with some used media from my other tank, this one is a brand new 40 gallon that I'm breaking in. It's acting like it is nearly done, I'm just confused about why I never saw a large nitrite spike, and why the ammonia won't drop below .25 PPM. It doesn't make any sense to me but I have to be missing something.

As far as tank cleaning, I have not cleaned it in a week in a half. Previously when the feeders were in it I was cleaning it once a week, removing 10-15% of the water, dechlorinating, the whole bit. Since it's a new tank, I haven't laid a hand on the filter pads themselves at all.

I'll get some more used stuff to put in the filter.... but I am having my doubts as to whether or not this will actually adress the problem because this cycle seems atypical.

 

[Seed]

Anyone with an idea, I'd greatly appreciate it. This tank's been cycling for a while now and I'd like it to be over soon.

 

[st24rsap]

it the ammonia is dropping from 4ppm to 0.25 within 24 hours and there is no nitrite trace then my guess is that it is cycled, i think with a fishless cycle you need to do a large water change to bring the nitrate down once it has cycled but im not 100% sure on this as only ever cycled with fish

Im sure someone here will have the answer for you

 

[rdd1952]

Have you tested your other tanks or your tap water to make sure the test kit is correct? There is no real rhyme or reason why the ammonia wouldn't drop all the way back to zero unless the test kit is faulty. You said that the nitrate is 40 ppm and that you had done a water change. Has it been climbing steadily as the ammonia (and I assume nitrite since you aren't getting a reading) is being processed?

 

[Seed]

Have you tested your other tanks or your tap water to make sure the test kit is correct? There is no real rhyme or reason why the ammonia wouldn't drop all the way back to zero unless the test kit is faulty. You said that the nitrate is 40 ppm and that you had done a water change. Has it been climbing steadily as the ammonia (and I assume nitrite since you aren't getting a reading) is being processed?

Ya, I actually did a whole experiment to determine if the kit was working properly or not, or if I was getting false readings. I detect zero ammonia in the tap water, and zero nitrates actually, so all of it is coming from the cycle.

The highest measurement on nitrates was 40 ppm or thereabouts, and it did climb steadily. I agree with you, this makes no sense at all. There are no nitrates in my tap water, at least no detectable amount, so they have to be coming from the cycle. I just can't figure out why the ammonia never zeros out. No ammonia in the tap either. I didn't test the tap for nitrite but I suppose I could.

It's like the bacteria just get full at .25 PPM and wont eat anymore, never seen anything like it. Hope it clears up soon.

 

[backtotropical]

It sounds to me that your ammonia test kit is working fine. Are you by any chance matching the colours under different light when testing tank water than when testing tap water? Even a small difference in the colour of the light can make a difference to what you interpret the colour to be.

For example, maybe you test the tap water in the kitchen which has lots of natural daylight, and the tank water in the lounge under slightly yellowish light bulbs? Just a thought.

It appears that your filter is cycled because the ammonia is processing within the recommended time, there is no nitrite reading and nitrate is constantly rising above the level from the tap.

Otherwise, maybe your nitrite test kit is faulty? Have you checked that? That would explain why you only saw a small nitrite spike, and maybe your NOB are still multiplying.

Thats me throwing some ideas together. Any make sense?

Cheers

BTT

 

[Seed]

it the ammonia is dropping from 4ppm to 0.25 within 24 hours and there is no nitrite trace then my guess is that it is cycled, i think with a fishless cycle you need to do a large water change to bring the nitrate down once it has cycled but im not 100% sure on this as only ever cycled with fish

Im sure someone here will have the answer for you

I will give that a try to see if it works. I had avoided doing this because I didn't want to interfere or disrupt the cycle.

 

[Seed]

It sounds to me that your ammonia test kit is working fine. Are you by any chance matching the colours under different light when testing tank water than when testing tap water? Even a small difference in the colour of the light can make a difference to what you interpret the colour to be.

For example, maybe you test the tap water in the kitchen which has lots of natural daylight, and the tank water in the lounge under slightly yellowish light bulbs? Just a thought.

It appears that your filter is cycled because the ammonia is processing within the recommended time, there is no nitrite reading and nitrate is constantly rising above the level from the tap.

Otherwise, maybe your nitrite test kit is faulty? Have you checked that? That would explain why you only saw a small nitrite spike, and maybe your NOB are still multiplying.

Thats me throwing some ideas together. Any make sense?

Cheers

BTT

Thanks for the reply. I have indirectly verified that the nitrite test is working properly. I just set up a 20 gallon tank and I am cycling it without fish. It has started to process ammonia and now the nitrites are climbing quite quickly. I'm pretty sure the nitrite test is working properly because it detects them in this tank.


I am thinking that the tank is cycled too and perhaps something is leeching for the rocks I have in there that is disrupting the ammonia reading somehow. I also don't know how the ammonia test works... having just completed general chemistry in college, it seems like it forms complex ions, not sure, but I know all the complex ion stuff I just did made all kinds of pretty colors. I'm wondering if it's possible that something in the tank is acting as a ligand in place of the NH3.

But then again, I did that experiment and showed no ammonia reading when I treat samples of the water with Amquel, which leads me to believe there is in fact ammonia in the tank. I don't get it. I am reluctant to put fish into it without knowing what is going on.

 

[Larissa]

Do you ave any live plants that could be rotting and giving off extra ammonia?

 

[Seed]

I do. They look ok, but I'll remove them and see if it helps.

 

[Larissa]

Perhaps don't remove them all - just any dead leaves that you see that could be contributing to the ammonia reading.

 

[Seed]

Larisa, your idea lit a light bulb above my head and I figured out what the problem was. I had put cotton balls in the filter because the water had gotten cloudy. I've found this to be a useful technique for clarifying water that doesn't require the use of any chemicals or even water changes, the cotton balls effectively attract the particles and go a long way towards clarifying a tank, they just need to be replaced every couple hours. The problem is that I forgot that I had put them in there and they were rotting. Due to the position of the tank itself, I tend to take my water readings not far from where the water enters the tank from the filter, leaving very little time for bacteria to eat any ammonia products from the rotting cotton balls. I removed the disgusting rotting cotton balls (this caused dry heaving and was not pleasant), and within four hours the ammonia reading had reduced to zero. Tank's cycled!

Thanks everyone for helping me brainstorm.

 

[Larissa]

Well done! I figured something was rotting and causing an imballance - since everything else seemed spot on in terms of the cycling process. Now comes the fun part! Do you have any idea what fish you are going to add?