How Would White Led Lights Work As A Light Source For Planted Tank
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nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
They won't work. Generic LEDs can be acceptable for lighting tanks without plants or corals, but as soon as you add photosynthetic organisms to the mix, they just aren't bright enough.
Even the current generation of high-power LEDs such as the TMC AquaRay aren't particularly strong so you need multiple units per tank, and despite the hype, they're so expensive to buy* that any long-term savings in energy and bulb replacement costs are difficult to quantify. While chatting with a very experienced marine aquarium retailer a few weeks ago, we discussed these units, and his conclusion after using them for a while was that you need twice as many than the manufacturer suggests to get comparable coral growth, and even that assumes the tank is relatively shallow.
Frankly, I'd say that LED technology isn't mature enough yet for fishkeeping applications, or at least not in the sense of being cheaper and better than anything already on the market.
Cheers, Neale
*Certainly when compared to fluorescent tubes, though perhaps less so compared to metal halide.
Even the current generation of high-power LEDs such as the TMC AquaRay aren't particularly strong so you need multiple units per tank, and despite the hype, they're so expensive to buy* that any long-term savings in energy and bulb replacement costs are difficult to quantify. While chatting with a very experienced marine aquarium retailer a few weeks ago, we discussed these units, and his conclusion after using them for a while was that you need twice as many than the manufacturer suggests to get comparable coral growth, and even that assumes the tank is relatively shallow.
Frankly, I'd say that LED technology isn't mature enough yet for fishkeeping applications, or at least not in the sense of being cheaper and better than anything already on the market.
Cheers, Neale
*Certainly when compared to fluorescent tubes, though perhaps less so compared to metal halide.
SuperColey1
Planted Section
Neale - From what I am currently hearing, reading (and experiencing) it is actually the other way around. The Lumens and visual brightness is less per W than the fluoros/MH but the PAR is much higher.
A fair few reefers are now saying that their corals have been bleaching rather than dieing off as they hav more usable light than they thought due to the higher PAR.
In my planted I am seeing the same. 37W/1.12WPG (15" above water surface) of white LED is growing the plants much faster than 48W/1.45WPG of T5HO (6" above water surface.)
However as said earlier standard LEDs just won't cut it. High power LEDs only.
This is 1.12WPG of 5500K 3W LEDs
AC
A fair few reefers are now saying that their corals have been bleaching rather than dieing off as they hav more usable light than they thought due to the higher PAR.
In my planted I am seeing the same. 37W/1.12WPG (15" above water surface) of white LED is growing the plants much faster than 48W/1.45WPG of T5HO (6" above water surface.)
However as said earlier standard LEDs just won't cut it. High power LEDs only.
This is 1.12WPG of 5500K 3W LEDs
AC
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
This is fascinating, and contrary to what I'd heard, where this marine retailer had opted to stick with metal halides, and basically uses the LED systems to illuminate the dry goods counter!
I certainly stand corrected! Your planted tank looks great. Is this using two of the "strips" of LEDs per 50 cm of tank length, or four? The impression I'd received about them was that the standard one or two strips just isn't enough, and you need more than that, especially for deep tanks.
Cheers, Neale
I certainly stand corrected! Your planted tank looks great. Is this using two of the "strips" of LEDs per 50 cm of tank length, or four? The impression I'd received about them was that the standard one or two strips just isn't enough, and you need more than that, especially for deep tanks.
Cheers, Neale
degsod
Fish Addict
Wow!! that light looks bright. How many LED's have you got in that hood? How much did it cost you to do? I have been toying with the idea of doing something similar myself.
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
The Wikipedia article on LEDs is interesting. Turns out that high-output LEDs produce less light per watt than fluorescent tubes, but more than incandescent bulbs. LEDs currently being tested are much more efficient though, producing something like five times as much light per watt.
So, would seem LEDs may be bright enough to compete with other sources of light, but they're not necessarily as efficient as you might suppose in terms of the electricity they use up.
Cheers, Neale
So, would seem LEDs may be bright enough to compete with other sources of light, but they're not necessarily as efficient as you might suppose in terms of the electricity they use up.
Cheers, Neale
degsod
Fish Addict
Watts per gallon should not really be used as a way of measurement of light. going back to my old physics lessons light levels are measured in lux and intensity is measured in lumens.
Lumens = lux per sq metre
all we need to know is how many lumens we need.
However this is not the be all and end all as different depths of tank will need different lumens.
No I am confused LOL
Lumens = lux per sq metre
all we need to know is how many lumens we need.
However this is not the be all and end all as different depths of tank will need different lumens.
No I am confused LOL
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
You are quite right. The Wikipedia article specifically talks about how much light (lumens) is produced per watt of power, and that's what I'm referred to in the above posting.
The "watts per gallon" measurement really only makes sense when comparing the same type of light (e.g., fluorescent tubes) with each other.
Cheers, Neale
The "watts per gallon" measurement really only makes sense when comparing the same type of light (e.g., fluorescent tubes) with each other.
Cheers, Neale
hollanda88
Fish Addict
SuperColey1
Planted Section
This is DIY'd from the ebay HK imported white LEDs. George Farmer has used the TMC AquaRays with good results. Personally I'm not one for spending £100 for 12W 
It would take 3 strips to 'nearly' match my setup and £300 is a lot of £
This unit is 15 x 3W 5500K LEDs which takes 3.7V @700ma for full brightness These are running at 3.5V per LED and I am told by someone in the know (I have no idea) that they are therefore running at 2.45W each. Cost me £110 to build.
Therefore 2.45W x 15 = 36.75W. (Some pics below to show)
So on this unit I am seeing improvements on T5HO however. I have the same LEDs and power over a 10Ltr Nano but 3 instead of 15 and am not seeing the same results!!!
What I can say so far is that it seems spread is all important with the LEDs. You can see that in the full luminaire the LEDs are 5 rows of 3 so give a good spread. Lots of lights overlapping their 'beams'. On the Nano there are just 3 LEDs in a line. Much like a fluorescent tube is and the growth is not so good. I had assumed that with the large luminaire meaning I was getting 2-3WPG worth of fluoro out of 1.12WPG of LED that instead of needing super highlight on the 10Ltr (5+WPG) that these LEDs at about 3.25WPG would work but so far that is not the case.
I would guess that with the TMC units the same is true. That if 3 units are spaced well they will give much better results than if 3 are next to each other like tradition luminaire units.
Here is a link to some threads that are experiencing similar r.e. overlap etc or where they are telling me different than I was originally told r.e. the reef side thinking not enough:
Last post on this page:
[URL="http
/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/56548-led-lighting.html"]http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumap...d-lighting.html[/URL]
This post has a reefer praising them!!!
[URL="http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/56548-led-lighting-2.html"]http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumap...lighting-2.html[/URL]
This thread is worth reading from start to finish. Some very good enlightening info and seems from several LED experts. The post that told me about reefers getting it wrong is post 57 on page 5 or 6. Read it from the start though. Very good thread this one
[URL="http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57642-led-experimental-tank-started-later.html"]http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumap...rted-later.html[/URL]
Watts are power
Lumens is the human eye's perception of brightness.
Neither are a light measurement!!!
LEDs are said to produce less lumens but more usable light (PAR/PUR) in that they produce light in a narrower range whereas other lights produce lights at all extremes. therefore if you have a light producing X amount of lumens fine. that is how bright it looks to a human but how much of that light is within the 'usable' range?
AC
It would take 3 strips to 'nearly' match my setup and £300 is a lot of £ This unit is 15 x 3W 5500K LEDs which takes 3.7V @700ma for full brightness These are running at 3.5V per LED and I am told by someone in the know (I have no idea) that they are therefore running at 2.45W each. Cost me £110 to build.
Therefore 2.45W x 15 = 36.75W. (Some pics below to show)
So on this unit I am seeing improvements on T5HO however. I have the same LEDs and power over a 10Ltr Nano but 3 instead of 15 and am not seeing the same results!!!
What I can say so far is that it seems spread is all important with the LEDs. You can see that in the full luminaire the LEDs are 5 rows of 3 so give a good spread. Lots of lights overlapping their 'beams'. On the Nano there are just 3 LEDs in a line. Much like a fluorescent tube is and the growth is not so good. I had assumed that with the large luminaire meaning I was getting 2-3WPG worth of fluoro out of 1.12WPG of LED that instead of needing super highlight on the 10Ltr (5+WPG) that these LEDs at about 3.25WPG would work but so far that is not the case.
I would guess that with the TMC units the same is true. That if 3 units are spaced well they will give much better results than if 3 are next to each other like tradition luminaire units.
Here is a link to some threads that are experiencing similar r.e. overlap etc or where they are telling me different than I was originally told r.e. the reef side thinking not enough:
Last post on this page:
[URL="http
/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/56548-led-lighting.html"]http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumap...d-lighting.html[/URL]This post has a reefer praising them!!!
[URL="http
/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/56548-led-lighting-2.html"]http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumap...lighting-2.html[/URL]This thread is worth reading from start to finish. Some very good enlightening info and seems from several LED experts. The post that told me about reefers getting it wrong is post 57 on page 5 or 6. Read it from the start though. Very good thread this one
[URL="http
/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/57642-led-experimental-tank-started-later.html"]http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumap...rted-later.html[/URL]Watts are power
Lumens is the human eye's perception of brightness.
Neither are a light measurement!!!
LEDs are said to produce less lumens but more usable light (PAR/PUR) in that they produce light in a narrower range whereas other lights produce lights at all extremes. therefore if you have a light producing X amount of lumens fine. that is how bright it looks to a human but how much of that light is within the 'usable' range?
AC
degsod
Fish Addict
Thanks,
I am going to have some happy reading!!! I might be getting onto ebay to order some LED's from HK, I got some Moonlight ones from there, only cost 99p + £3 p+p, I have seen the same ones in the LFS for £18.
Your plants look awesome by the way!!
I am going to have some happy reading!!! I might be getting onto ebay to order some LED's from HK, I got some Moonlight ones from there, only cost 99p + £3 p+p, I have seen the same ones in the LFS for £18.
Your plants look awesome by the way!!
SuperColey1
Planted Section
I used 15 of these. E-mailed the seller who said they were 5500K. I bought 20 to have some spare. As with all LEDs they aren't identical so I have probably 50% that are clear white (to look at) and the other 20 a slight blue/green tinge or pink. It is a tiny difference which is only noticeable when looking at the LED (which you shouldn't do BTW) It is not noticeable when looking at the light output.
Similar to fluoros really. I guess at this stage we can say the CRI of the LEDs is like buying a flouro with a CRI beginning with 8 (the first digit of CRI indicates the colour accuracy of the tube. 8 means between 80 and 89% accurate) so these LEDs would be 855 (80-89% accurate to 5500K)
CRI of LEDs will no doubt improve. There aren't many T8 tubes with a 9 in front of CRI but lots of T5 do.
http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/5x-White-High-Power-...1742.m153.l1262
AC
Similar to fluoros really. I guess at this stage we can say the CRI of the LEDs is like buying a flouro with a CRI beginning with 8 (the first digit of CRI indicates the colour accuracy of the tube. 8 means between 80 and 89% accurate) so these LEDs would be 855 (80-89% accurate to 5500K)
CRI of LEDs will no doubt improve. There aren't many T8 tubes with a 9 in front of CRI but lots of T5 do.
http
/cgi.ebay.co.uk/5x-White-High-Power-...1742.m153.l1262AC
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
hunter001
Fish Fanatic
This is DIY'd from the ebay HK imported white LEDs. George Farmer has used the TMC AquaRays with good results. Personally I'm not one for spending £100 for 12W
This unit is 15 x 3W 5500K LEDs which takes 3.7V @700ma for full brightness These are running at 3.5V per LED and I am told by someone in the know (I have no idea) that they are therefore running at 2.45W each. Cost me £110 to build.
Therefore 2.45W x 15 = 36.75W. (Some pics below to show)
So on this unit I am seeing improvements on T5HO however. I have the same LEDs and power over a 10Ltr Nano but 3 instead of 15 and am not seeing the same results!!!
What I can say so far is that it seems spread is all important with the LEDs. You can see that in the full luminaire the LEDs are 5 rows of 3 so give a good spread. Lots of lights overlapping their 'beams'. On the Nano there are just 3 LEDs in a line. Much like a fluorescent tube is and the growth is not so good. I had assumed that with the large luminaire meaning I was getting 2-3WPG worth of fluoro out of 1.12WPG of LED that instead of needing super highlight on the 10Ltr (5+WPG) that these LEDs at about 3.25WPG would work but so far that is not the case.
I would guess that with the TMC units the same is true. That if 3 units are spaced well they will give much better results than if 3 are next to each other like tradition luminaire units.
Here is a link to some threads that are experiencing similar r.e. overlap etc or where they are telling me different than I was originally told r.e. the reef side thinking not enough:
Last post on this page:
<a href="http
This post has a reefer praising them!!!
<a href="http
This thread is worth reading from start to finish. Some very good enlightening info and seems from several LED experts. The post that told me about reefers getting it wrong is post 57 on page 5 or 6. Read it from the start though. Very good thread this one
<a href="http
Watts are power
Lumens is the human eye's perception of brightness.
Neither are a light measurement!!!
LEDs are said to produce less lumens but more usable light (PAR/PUR) in that they produce light in a narrower range whereas other lights produce lights at all extremes. therefore if you have a light producing X amount of lumens fine. that is how bright it looks to a human but how much of that light is within the 'usable' range?
AC
You dont by any chance have a wiring diagram for this anywhere do you? I fancy giving it a go and testing alongside a traditional lighting setup.
SuperColey1
Planted Section
Here is the project build write up on my site:
[URL="http/www.greenneedle.co.uk/LED1.html"]http/www.greenneedle.co.uk/LED1.html[/URL]
This picture shows basically one series of 3 from the connector to driver to 3 x LED (red line = 1 x series of 3). The connector on the right goes to the 12V 700ma+ adaptor:
However remember that if you are testing you need a PAR meter and a 'target'!!!
What I mean is that if you setup an LED unit and a flourescent lamp of equal W next to you of the same K rating then you will only see the human perception and not actual light. We see greens and whites and the other colours don't look as bright.
If you test the Lumens or Lux you will get the 'official' human perception of the output of the light. In this hobby the output is of no consequence. It is where the light is received which is important. It is the PAR mesurement of the relevant Nm range that is 'apparently' important. LEDs produce light in a narrow range within these parameters whereas MH and Flouro produce light outside of this range too like UV and InfraRed. Therefore some of the light from Flouro and MH is unusable by the tank whereas virtually all of the LED light is
If you do test then you need a tank of water. Ability to have the flourescent and LEDs at an equal height in the same position and then measure the light 'received' at the same point on the bottom of the tank of water. You also need to experiment with overlapping too as I explained in my previous post. With the LEDs in a line they don't seem to perform as well as a flouro (or at least not any better) in terms of plant growth. With them spread out they work much better than flouro so this shows it is the overlap/spread of light which is key
Therefore if I had a PAR meter I would do 2 tests. Firstly I would do a single T5HO versus a line of LEDs of the same total wattage. I think the T5HO will win or draw.
Then I would do 2 x T5HO versus spread out LEDs of the same total wattage. I think the LEDs will win.
You also have to remember that with flourescent lighting they are not as bright at the inch or so near the end caps!!! Therefore the shorter the tube the more light is lost at these ends!!! Longer tubes will have less light lost at the ends.
Good luck
AC
[URL="http
/www.greenneedle.co.uk/LED1.html"]http/www.greenneedle.co.uk/LED1.html[/URL]This picture shows basically one series of 3 from the connector to driver to 3 x LED (red line = 1 x series of 3). The connector on the right goes to the 12V 700ma+ adaptor:
However remember that if you are testing you need a PAR meter and a 'target'!!!
What I mean is that if you setup an LED unit and a flourescent lamp of equal W next to you of the same K rating then you will only see the human perception and not actual light. We see greens and whites and the other colours don't look as bright.
If you test the Lumens or Lux you will get the 'official' human perception of the output of the light. In this hobby the output is of no consequence. It is where the light is received which is important. It is the PAR mesurement of the relevant Nm range that is 'apparently' important. LEDs produce light in a narrow range within these parameters whereas MH and Flouro produce light outside of this range too like UV and InfraRed. Therefore some of the light from Flouro and MH is unusable by the tank whereas virtually all of the LED light is
If you do test then you need a tank of water. Ability to have the flourescent and LEDs at an equal height in the same position and then measure the light 'received' at the same point on the bottom of the tank of water. You also need to experiment with overlapping too as I explained in my previous post. With the LEDs in a line they don't seem to perform as well as a flouro (or at least not any better) in terms of plant growth. With them spread out they work much better than flouro so this shows it is the overlap/spread of light which is key
Therefore if I had a PAR meter
I would do 2 tests. Firstly I would do a single T5HO versus a line of LEDs of the same total wattage. I think the T5HO will win or draw.Then I would do 2 x T5HO versus spread out LEDs of the same total wattage. I think the LEDs will win.
You also have to remember that with flourescent lighting they are not as bright at the inch or so near the end caps!!! Therefore the shorter the tube the more light is lost at these ends!!! Longer tubes will have less light lost at the ends.
Good luck
AC
mixmaster jay
Fish Gatherer
why is there so many fans in there led's produce very little heat and i can't see any transformers(and not the robots in disguise lol).
just buy the gu10 halogen led replacements they are really bright and cheap ive used them with a recessed lighting kit which was in the cheap isle in B&Q £5 a set so i got two sets (6 fittings) two boxes of white =4 and two blue for night light wired them up on seperate switches and a timers on them they worked a treat and looked good too
just to show you the lights here is a link to B&Q
[URL="http/www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSe...econdid=9415373"]http/www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSe...econdid=9415373[/URL]
just buy the gu10 halogen led replacements they are really bright and cheap ive used them with a recessed lighting kit which was in the cheap isle in B&Q £5 a set so i got two sets (6 fittings) two boxes of white =4 and two blue for night light wired them up on seperate switches and a timers on them they worked a treat and looked good too
just to show you the lights here is a link to B&Q
[URL="http
/www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSe...econdid=9415373"]http/www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSe...econdid=9415373[/URL]Similar threads
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