How to make a temporary home for a fish?

[sharkweek178]

So I saw a betta at a local place and fell in love. Problem is I don't really have a place prepared for it. I do have a 10 gallon tank I've been prepping for a betta. And it does have salvinia minima. So I added some ammonia to see if it can process it to 0 ammonia and nitrates in a day. If it does, great. I'll go get that betta if she's still there and keep her in there as I scape this tank. But what if it doesn't process the ammonia? I was thinking that maybe I could by a small tank like a 1 gallon as a temporary home. Add some fast growing floating plants and give it a complete water change every day until its permanent home would be ready.
Keeping in mind this is for a desire on my part and not an emergency on the fish's. So I'm willing to not be selfish if it puts the fish at risk. have to wonder if this is a viable plan. I certainly don't want to do a fish in cycle. Is there another way?

 

[seangee]

How much salvinia? Its most likely fine as long as its not just a few pieces. Add as many floaters as you can. For a 10G its easy enough to change 50-80% daily if needed.
Also what is you pH? If its <7 its even better.
I have "not bothered" with cycling several times and just crammed the surface with frogbit.

 

[GaryE]

Betta splendens are air breathing fish originally evolved to flourish in swamps with low oxygen. Fancy males are raised in jars with daily water changes. No one can cycle a jar.
There are very few fish that could survive that, but Betta splendens do.

Before I'm accused of arguing for cruelty - what stops an aquarist with a Betta in a small container from managing ammonia with daily 100% water changes? It's easy, it doesn't take much time and it does the job. For certain, having a tank cycling simplifies the life of both the fishkeeper and the fish. But short term, the only thing stopping you would be laziness.

Get the tank ready for the Betta while providing clean water daily. The cycle doesn't matter in a short term 'hotel room' container. I doubt you plan to ignore the fish and not do a simple daily task until the permanent tank is ready to let you change less water, but still do it regularly. Female fancy Bettas aren't as handicapped as males, and you have to watch for jumping. They haven't been jarred, and yes, there would be short term stress involved. The store life is probably far worse.

You don't want to keep the fish in temporary quarters for any more than you have to. A proper tank is essential if you are going to buy it. But basic Betta biology, combined with how they are raised commercially makes it very easy to maintain a healthy short term environment while you get the act together.

 

[sharkweek178]

There's anothet thing I need to consider. Heat. I need to have a heater for the temp home.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Yes, we can keep fish in an uncycled container indefinitely by doing water changes very day or even every other day. It depends on the size of the fish and of the container. However, it is important to realize that a cycle becomes established because there is ammonia. Water changes reduce ammonia and this will greatly slow or prevents a cycle from establishing.

Doing the above is fine while one is cycling a permanent tank. Doing it for extended periods is not a great plan. Plants do use ammonium and nitrate. But if they were enough to handle ammonia, there would not be any nitrifying bacteria.

I would suggest one can greatly accelerate a cycle by using bottles bacteria of the proper kind. To me this means Dr. tim's One and Only and maybe Tatra Safe Start or Safe Start+. I am very familiar with the first product as i have used it off and on for many years. The other method is to use established tanks to supply seed bacteria. The easiest way is to rinse out media from a cycled filter. But the bacteria live on other hard surfaces of a tank as long as they are in subdued or absent lighting. Live plants also host bacteria.

Yes bettas can manage is oxygen poor environments. But they are not going to have toxic levels or ammonia or nitrite.

Kajimura M, Takimoto K, Takimoto A. Acute toxicity of ammonia and nitrite to Siamese fighting fish (Betta splendens). BMC Zool. 2023 Nov 2;8(1):25. doi: 10.1186/s40850-023-00188-3. PMID: 37915084; PMCID: PMC10621081.

Abstract​

The acute toxicity and sublethal effects of ammonia and nitrite on the air-beathing Siamese fighting fish, betta (Betta splendens) was studied for 96 h. The LC50 (50% Lethal Concentration) for 96 h for adult bettas to ammonia-N and nitrite-N was 123.4 mM (1.7 g/L, 95% confidence limits: 114.7–130.0 mM) and 24.6 mM (343.6 mg/L, 95% confidence limits: 22.7–26.4 mM) respectively. Exposure to 90 mM ammonia did not affect ammonia and urea excretion rates in bettas. There was no significant difference in values between control and ammonia-loaded (90 mM ammonia) individuals in either brain or liver activities of glutamine synthase, while plasma ammonia levels slightly increased. It appears unlikely that ammonia was converted to urea or amino acids for detoxification. Sublethal nitrite (24.6 mM nitrite) affected plasma nitrite, methemoglobin and hemoglobin. Plasma nitrite values remained much lower than ambient concentrations. Betta has a labyrinth organ and can breathe air. Bettas may temporarily reduce the entry of ammonia and nitrite into the body by increasing the rate of air respiration and reducing the contribution of the gill epithelium, which is highly permeable to these nitrogenous pollutants.

Full paper here: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10621081/

 

[GaryE]

Yes, we can keep fish in an uncycled container indefinitely by doing water changes very day or even every other day. It depends on the size of the fish and of the container. However, it is important to realize that a cycle becomes established because there is ammonia. Water changes reduce ammonia and this will greatly slow or prevents a cycle from establishing.

In this situation, the start of the thread says one Betta currently in a pet store, with a 10 gallon tank being cycled but not necessarily ready. So while the papers are of use, they pitch a bit past the original question - a very simple one about keeping a fish in a container for just a few days. Nothing indefinate, no denial of the ammonia issue - indeed, quite the opposite from a caring fishkeeper.

What's the room temperature of the container, compared to the room temperature of the pet shop tank?

 

[OldFishKeeper]

There's anothet thing I need to consider. Heat. I need to have a heater for the temp home.

Amazon has some small, low wattage heaters. Search for "small aquarium heater". For a small, temporary quarantine tank, look for "critter keepers", 2-3 gallon plastic containers at Petco or Petsmart.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I posted what I did for you Gary not the OP. Bettas can do OK in reduced DO levels they cannot do so in elevated ammonia and/or nitrite. I did say one can keep a fish with no cycle but with regular water changes. The problem is this method is very unforgiving. What happens if one gets sick and cannot do the water changes?

I would not bother with live plants in the temporary containers. Daily water changes would be enough. Depending on how long a fish has to be in a temp container the greater the chances that the plants would not do well. Dead plant parts create ammonia.

If one wants to cycle a tank fast it can be done using seeding of bacteria. The faster the permanent tank is ready, the sooner the fish would get out of the smaller uncycled one. And I also mentioned how to seed bacteria in order to speed up a cycle.

I have never been a fan of Bettas in a jar. I would never do this. I have bought almost no fish from pets stores and very few from the remaining decent LFS. I refuse to shop in store which well tank busters when they are tiny, I refuse to shop in stores which sell Glo-Fish and I tend not to shop at stores that have Bettas in jars. This is my decision and there are plenty of folks who do not agree with it.

Gary- I respect your knowledge and experience. But it seems like you had skipped reading the first three paragraphs of my post? I thought they offered reasonable answers to the OPs questions.

 

[sharkweek178]

I posted what I did for you Gary not the OP. Bettas can do OK in reduced DO levels they cannot do so in elevated ammonia and/or nitrite. I did say one can keep a fish with no cycle but with regular water changes. The problem is this method is very unforgiving. What happens if one gets sick and cannot do the water changes?

I would not bother with live plants in the temporary containers. Daily water changes would be enough. Depending on how long a fish has to be in a temp container the greater the chances that the plants would not do well. Dead plant parts create ammonia.

If one wants to cycle a tank fast it can be done using seeding of bacteria. The faster the permanent tank is ready, the sooner the fish would get out of the smaller uncycled one. And I also mentioned how to seed bacteria in order to speed up a cycle.

I have never been a fan of Bettas in a jar. I would never do this. I have bought almost no fish from pets stores and very few from the remaining decent LFS. I refuse to shop in store which well tank busters when they are tiny, I refuse to shop in stores which sell Glo-Fish and I tend not to shop at stores that have Bettas in jars. This is my decision and there are plenty of folks who do not agree with it.

Gary- I respect your knowledge and experience. But it seems like you had skipped reading the first three paragraphs of my post? I thought they offered reasonable answers to the OPs questions.

The plants would also be for surface cover and just so the fish wouldn't be living in a completely bare environment with nothing to explore.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Plants cannot hurt even is a temp uncycled tank. The thing is the faster you would get their main tank cycled the less time you and the fish must deal with a temporary uncycled set-up.

The only way to speed up a cycle is to increase the amount of bacteria in the tank at the start. Plants will help a they host the bacteria. However, some plants do not do well in elevate ammonia. My preference in preparing a planted tank for fish is to start by planting first. They I want to give the plants some time to root if they re in the substrate or to adapt to water conditions if the are like anubias and ferns.

Most plants which originate with the growing operations come loaded with nutrients. So they tend to do well initially, But if we do not feed them, they will often suffer over time. In some cases our tap water and fish wastes produces all the plants need. But the more plants we have and the more nutrient demanding they are, the more they will need to have ferts added to the tank.

Depending on the fish we are adding, it may help to have the substrate plants get some time to root first. This makes them less likely to be uprooted by the fish.

One of the reasons a lot of pet and fish stores have the Bettas in the cup is that people feel sorry for them and will buy them to "rescue" them from this fate. As soon as one is bought it gets replaced by the store. The one thing I believed about keeping fish even before I put my first ones into my first tank was this. If I am going to keep fish in my tanks, their entire quality of life is up to me. If I am not prepared to offer them the best conditions I can, then I should not keep them. This is why I am willing to spend as much money to try and help a sick fish that costs $5 as one that costs a whole heck of a lot more. And I have both.

 

[anewbie]

You can always get a 5 gallon white pail (white are food save) at home depot for $3 or $4; the bigger issue is when doing water changes is to make sure the new water is the same temp as the old water. So i would get 2 pails one to hold water and one to hold the fish; then the next day swap the fish into the other pail and refill the first