How To Keep Rams Alive!

[AndyTaylor]

Hi All, maybe someone could help with this....it seems like lots of people have problems with Rams so I know i'm not alone here!!
After losing 2 beautiful long finned German Blues a few weeks back (I mistakenly sexed them as a male and female and very quickly found out my mistake - the first male lasted 2 days after being chased constantly, the 2nd male died suddenly with no signs of illness or stress a few days later)....I decided to try again. At the weekend I bought 3 Golden Rams (1 male, 2 females...correctly sexed after much research this time) from my local LFS. Introduced them to the tank and 2 of them paired off immediately, the other looked pale and I expected to lose her fairly quickly, but she seemed to recover and was interecting with the other female and all 3 were hangin' out together happily.
My male dwarf gourami took a dislike to them straight away and chased them for a bit but he chases everything anyway so I wasn't too concerned. The male ram had a run in with my ruby shark but they seemed to be fine with each other after that. Anyway....came home from work yesterday to find both females dead. The male seems fine.
I purchased 2 female dwarf gouramis to calm down the male dwarf but it didn't work so he's now in a breeding net while i decide what to do with the little bugger....he's a lovely fish but a nightmare to all his tankmates so i think he'll be going back to the shop.
Against all my better judgement I also introduced a female Blue ram who seems to get on fine with the Gold male (I can hear the gasps of horror from here!!! :n) )
Any ideas on how to keep these fish alive as they are so beautiful and short of setting up a species tank (which i don't have room for) i'm running out of ideas.

Thanks y'all

Andy

 

[black angel]

what size tank and any other tank mates. From what ive read here some types of ram can be really sensitive to the water. What are your stats?

 

[AndyTaylor]

what size tank and any other tank mates. From what ive read here some types of ram can be really sensitive to the water. What are your stats?

I was going to say......tankmates as per my sig but it's not visible for some reason....

A slightly overstocked Rekord 70 with Harlquins, Scissortails, Neons, Lemons, 2 small marble angels (very calm at the moment) Aggressive male dwarf gourami (currently in quarantine in a breeding net) 2 baby female dwarf gouramis, panda corys, 1 young ruby shark, ghost shrimp, 3 small ottos, 1 tiny indian glass fish (the only survivor of a shoal of 12) and the rams - 1 male Gold and 1 female Blue..
Actually, since i posted the situation seems to have stabilised. With the male dwraf gourami out of the picture the tank has calmed down a lot. The 2 rams seems to be getting on well, they're doing the usual ram chasing and facing off behaviour but at the same time they're quite happy to hang out together most of the time and are not at all aggressive to the other fish. No hiding, bright colors and feeding normally.....hopefully it will continue.
I was going to add 2 female gold rams but i think i'll leave it and observe for a bit....

Ph: 6.5 - 7
Ammonia - o
Nitrite - 0.3
Nitrate - 10

I'm doing 20% water changes every 2 days to get the nitrate down and it seems to be working......finger crossed!

Andy

 

[@ombomb]

When you say a Rekord 70... that's not 70 litres is it?

If it is, then slightly over stocked is WAY off the mark.

IME Dawrf Grouamis and Rams don't get on, but that was with a single male. Having said that, if your tank IS only 70 litres you need need to remove fish anyway and it's too small for the Rams to be happy.

 

[black angel]

Its around 15 uk gallons.
To keep that many fish you will need another filter such as a fluval 1+ as the juwel just wont cope with the bio load. The nitrites should be reading 0 for a cycled tank so again that suggests the filter isnt coping.
The angels alone need 10 gallons a piece so yes you are majorly overstocked and the rams being sensitive will feel it first.
How often and how much are you doing in water changes?
To be honest if it isnt already happening then bacterial diseases may be starting to take over.

 

[freddyk]

It would be best if you kept the tank understocked, a pair of rams with some small shoaling fish would do it. I agree that Gourami's and 'sharks' are not ideal companions for these guys. The tank should also have good cover for security and hiding spots. The NitrIte should be 0 at all times.

 

[AndyTaylor]

Its around 15 uk gallons.
To keep that many fish you will need another filter such as a fluval 1+ as the juwel just wont cope with the bio load. The nitrites should be reading 0 for a cycled tank so again that suggests the filter isnt coping.
The angels alone need 10 gallons a piece so yes you are majorly overstocked and the rams being sensitive will feel it first.
How often and how much are you doing in water changes?
To be honest if it isnt already happening then bacterial diseases may be starting to take over.

I agree with all the above....thanks for all the advice. I've made the beginner mistake of buying every fish i liked....
The tank is pretty heavily planted with loads of hiding places and caves so i'm not worried about that..
I checked out an external filter earlier and i'll pick one up at the weekend. I've just done another 20% water change and relegated the male dwarf gourami to my quarantine tank until i can find a home for him.
I'm going to do daily water changes and gravel cleaning until then....i would have done them twice a week anyway as i had a feeling i was overstocked
All the other fish seem fine at the moment.....the rams are behaving normally, butting heads every so often but thats normal for rams, right. They even seem to have put the shark in his place.! And i even found one of my missing ottos in the filter!! he's fine apart from his missing eye which he had when i got him!!! Tough fish!
I think my angels are a bit small to need 10 gallons apiece just yet but it will be a problem sooner or later, i guess.
I guess i have to return some fish or will it be ok with a big external? Maybe i should replace the tank with a 125 or 180?

Andy

 

[@ombomb]

I know you're working on sorting your tank out, but it's really not big enough for Rams OR the shark (which will get aggressive). Depending on how many Cories you have (and remember Panda Cories are relatively sensitive) I would suggest you remove the Rams and Shark and stick with the Gouramis.

 

[AndyTaylor]

Thanks @ombomb.......that's good advice. I'll talk to my LFS and see will they re-home them for me.
The blue ram has started to get a little aggressive towards the gold ram, which i'm sure is down to lack of space because they're fine when they can't see each other.
I think i'll add an external filter just to be on the safe side too though, can't do any harm, i guess.
It's that or a bigger tank... hmmm, maybe!

 

[AndyTaylor]

Just picked up a Fluval plus 2 internal filter and talked my LFS down to a good price on a Rio 240 & cabinet! Now to find some space for it.......
Thanks to everyone for the advice..... i won't be repeating the same mistakes next time. I'm sure i can find loads of new mistakes to make instead!

Andy

 

[yvez9]

get a new tank soon as the angels will outgrow your 70 liter tank within a few months. They grow quite fast

get a new tank soon as the angels will outgrow your 70 liter tank within a few months. They grow quite fast! Good luck with your bigger tank!!

 

[Siamese Fighter05]

I bought a pair of german rams two days ago, They are both doing fine now. The male coloured up faster as well as parading himself around the tank, while the female was pale and hiding. Shes fine now and joins the male everywhere around. The pink around her belly is really bright now and im worried they are about to start breeding. My PH is bang on 7 from the tap and medium hardness, i have peat in the filter so it might be doing the trick to help them breed. I really hope they dont start breeding i have enough on my mind with my bronze cories now without a pair of fiesty rams! perhaps males are more hardy than females?

 

[AndyTaylor]

Well, my blue ram is dead...fished her out about an hour ago. I'm sure it was probably down to my over stocking but here's what happened...
I've been noticing what I thought was whitespot on my harlquins for the last 2 weeks or so, the only symptoms were the actual spots as the fish were completely normal...feeding shoaling etc. so i decided not to medicate as I've found that rams can be sensitive to Protozoin (whitespot medication), i gradually increased the temp by a degree every 2 days and noticed no change for the worst in any of the fish.
3 days ago i noticed that my gold ram had whitespots (again, behaviour normal ) so i decided to add meds.
Removed golden apple snail, shrimps and carbon sponge first. The next morning the blue ram was hiding in a corner and wouldn't come out for food. I watched her for a day hoping that she'd adjust but she didn't seem to be improving. I put the carbon back in and did a 30% water change each of the last 2 days and stopped the meds. It seemed to be working as she would come out every so often for a look around but she still wouldn't eat.
She got worse, hiding more often and then couldn't swim very well, sinking to the bottom and not being able to keep upright when on the bottom.

Does this sound like anything that could spread to my other fish? My water is perfect Ph.6.5 Amm 0 Nitrite0 Nitrate 0-5.
I'm guessing that the meds stressed her out and exhaustion finished her. She wasn't being chased by any of the others and the gold ram is fine....I found him guarding her corpse earlier

Andy