How Many In A 10 Gallon?

[Byron]

Thanks for the replies everybody! It's been a huge help. Now I at least know my options.

I'd probably either go with a betta(along with my two nerite snails already in the tank(love them for algae cleanup, not as good as bristlenose but for tank size was a GREAT option to get them). Or, I'd probably end up going with some neon tetras. I can get those easier around here than the embers. Sucks not having a small regular fish store with good people! I do think, since I'm going to be doing the big 50 gallon in sand substrate, I will more than likely go ahead and do sand for the other two as well. I'm sure my bristlenose will appreciate it! Though I MUST have her castle(literally) in there as well. Lol. She's got two small pieces of driftwood and a bigger piece. I knew they needed it but wasn't sure exactly why so thanks for that Byron!
 
(Yes, Spots is a very spoiled fish...lol. She absolutely loves this castle. I had taken it out and put a smaller rock decoration(fake) in there before and she wouldn't have anything to do with it. And I bought some slate caves and she'd maybe hang out on top of one or in one very briefly. Then she started hiding from me.....But now that the castle is back she's coming out more and being brave again! Yay!)
 
Anyway, if I can get the substrate changed over in the 20 gallon, then I'd probably add new fish after everything settles down again. I do need to up my water change schedule and keep after it. Especially if I want to take care of a 50 gallon soon! Speaking of...one quick question for that tank as well...I plan on moving my 6 male guppies to a 50 gallon with 12 females. I wanted to put some zebra danios in the tank(was thinking 6...) to help with population control of the guppy fry. Is 6 ok or should I put in more? I also wanted to put in some bandit corys as well as a bristlenose in that tank.
 
Thanks so much for all the help guys. I'd rather be more informed than regretting quick and fast decisions!
 
Also, here are my test parameters for both tanks.
 
20 gallon tank
temperatue around 77F
ph- 8.2(stable)
Ammonia 0-0.25ppm
Nitrite- 0ppm
Nitrate- 10-20ppm
KH-13 degrees
GH-14 degrees
 
 
10 gallon tank
temperature around 77F
ph-8.2
Ammonia-0.25ppm
Nitrite-0ppm
Nitrate-5ppm
KH- 12 degrees
GH- 13 degrees
 
I'm not sure why the GH and KH of the tanks are different. Same water is used(well water from tap, no conditioner added as I don't have chlorines/chloramines)
 
Thanks again!
   Kristen

 
The GH/KH difference is only one degree, and may be due to this or that.  I wouldn't worry, unless the difference increases.  In an aquarium, the GH and KH tend to remain close to the source water unless (1) you deliberately target them by using calcareous substances like gravel/sand/rock that is calcium-based (these will increase the GH/KH and pH), or (2) the KH is so low that organics (fish poop, wood, peat, dried leaves) soften the water.
 
On the intended guppy tank, I would not have so many guppies, at least with females included.  Six males will quickly impregnate all 12 females, and you will have fry in the hundreds every month.  There is no way all of these can be eaten.  I would either stay with males only, or if you do want some fry, significantly lower the numbers.
 
Byron.

Sorry to crash your thread, but I saw the sand substrate come up.
A couple questions:
Do guppys do well with sand? I'm assuming ghost shrimp love it.
How do you pre clean the sand?
Will my gravel vacuum still work with water changes and substrate cleaning?
The best way to remove gravel and add sand is to put fish in another tank, drain and save water, well at least 70% or so, and remove plants and such, then scoop out gravel and replace with sand, add water, plants then fish back?

Thanks!

 
Any fish will do well with sand.  This is more significant for substrate-level fish like corys, loaches, etc., and for upper fish that feed from the substrate like cichlids do.  Sand is definitely better for these, as they can sift it through their gills naturally.  Gravel is a nice substrate in some situations, to be authentic, as in Central American tanks with livebearers, or some Indian subcontinent biotopes, etc.  But sand is not problematic with any fish I have ever come across.
 
As for cleaning, you can run the vacuum over the top of the sand, not really getting into it, and suck up the detritus.  If you use a Python which has less suction that a manual unit you can dig into the sand a bit.  I tend to do this in one or two tanks, but not in others, governed by the fish.  The manual wazter changers do have more suction and you have to be careful or the sand will be picked up and in the bucket.
 
As for initial cleaning of sand, it is the same as gravel.  Lots of rinsing in a bucket.  I use play sand which is quite dirty, but I find that rinsing about six cups at a time, and giving it six or so rinsings, is adequate.  It is still dirty, but this settles down and is no problem.
 
And I do agree that when changing substrates, it is best to remove the fish to a temporary tank.  This way you are not being rushed, can take time, and even a day or two to make sure everything is the way you want it.
 
Byron.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Hm...I knew it would be a decent amount of fry in there but didn't realize it would be that much! I'm not really looking to breed them, I just thought the males would be less stressed with some females. Right now my guys are nipping each others tails which is why I wanted to upgrade. I didn't realize they'd be quite that territorial/aggressive with each other without females. First time guppy owner here...lol. So...if I did males only...what would be a good number so they won't fight as much? I wouldn't mind having other fish too, I do like the schools. Would some tetras go good with the guppies or would they be stressed out too much by them? I still want cories, maybe some khuli loaches as well(how many of those to a group?) If I don't have females, I don't have to get danios so I'm open to any suggestions! And well....what I can get at petsmart at the time. Lol. I want to do this tank right and make the fish happy!
Kristen

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Ok...my brain hurts now....IF tetras are ok...I was just thinking of maybe putting those that are in my 20 gallon all in the 50 and up the numbers of the glowlights and maybe putting other kinds of tetras/rasboras in with them(or other fish too)? Would that work? Then maybe do a school of neons in the 20 maybe with some cories in there? And since its established would otocinclus(not sure how to spell it) be good? I know they need to be in a group as well. Then I could use the 10 gallon as a quarantine/hospital tank instead of the 5 that I have. Though I'd keep it just in case.
Kristen

Just sort of messed around with the aqadvisor site...sort of came up with a number of some I may want but suggestions are most definitely welcome. 8 male guppies, 8 black neon tetras, 10 glowlight tetras, 6 false bandit cories, 5 black khuli loaches, and 1 female bristlenose.(and probably my 2 nerite snails too.) It said I'm at 76% stocking level(though I know it doesn't take in all factors. Lol. I was just playing.) What do you think of those fish together plus maybe something else too?

 

[Byron]

It has been decades since I had guppies, so I will leave those questions for the more experienced guppy members.  Most all of the cyprinids (rasbora, danio, barb, loaches including the kuhlii mentioned) and most all of the characins (tetras, hatchetfish, pencilfish) and all corys are shoaling fish, so always a group.  For kuhlii loaches, five is usually suggested.  Bear in mind you may not see them much, if that matters.  Not everyone like fish taking up tank space when they are rarely if ever seen.
 

IF tetras are ok...I was just thinking of maybe putting those that are in my 20 gallon all in the 50 and up the numbers of the glowlights and maybe putting other kinds of tetras/rasboras in with them(or other fish too)? Would that work? Then maybe do a school of neons in the 20 maybe with some cories in there? And since its established would otocinclus(not sure how to spell it) be good? I know they need to be in a group as well. Then I could use the 10 gallon as a quarantine/hospital tank instead of the 5 that I have. Though I'd keep it just in case.
 

 
Yes to the 50 gallon idea.  Yes to the 20 gallon.  Otocinclus should have a small group, I tend to get 3-5 at a time.  And yes, they should never go into a "new" tank as there will be no natural food (biofilms on surfaces with algae and microscopic critters) amd otos are wild caught and unfortunately often almost starved by the time they get to stores.  Introduced to a biologically established tank they will settle in faster, and then learn to accept sinking foods.  But initially they frequently refuse these and die if no algae is present.  One good thing to use here are dried leaves; collect some oak, maple, beech leaves now (autumn) as they die and fall off the trees, and these can be added to the aquarium where they will sink to the bottom in a couple days and produce infusoria.  All fry and any algae-eating type catfish will graze on these.
 
Best not to mix "algae" catfish like otos and bristlenose in the same tank as they will be competing for the same natural foods.  Not sure you were thinking this, but as both were mentioned, thought I'd point this out.
 
The numbers (post #18, second paragraph) look fine.  I myself wouldn't combine kuhlii loaches and corys, only because they share the same area and might not welcome each other.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Thanks Byron. Maybe I'll just stick with adding more cories then. Lol. Either more of the same or a different type. Though I would think more of the same would be better? Would they be happier that way or could I do 6 of them and 6 peppered or false julli? Would I be able to add another school or maybe two of like say, 10 harlequin rasboras and maybe 10 bloodfin tetras? I thought those looked pretty cool.

On and as for quarantining....once my fish are all in there(I could probably keep both the 10 and 20 going for those purposes, do you medicate at all even for parasites or just leave the fish in there for a certain length of time and watch them?
Kristen

 

[cowgirluntamed]

On and the otto cats will be in the 20 and the bristlenose will get moved to the 50. And I've got a silver maple in the back yard but its not quite ready to lose leaves yet. Would sycamore leaves work? Those are falling now. And do you leave them in there until they decay on their own or take them out after a bit? (Should I do this for the 50 gallon too?)
Kristen

Ps- and if the 50 gallon water parameters are around the same as the other two tanks after the fishless cycle, can I just catch the fish out of the other two and put them straight into the 50?

 

[Byron]

Maybe I'll just stick with adding more cories then. Lol. Either more of the same or a different type. Though I would think more of the same would be better? Would they be happier that way or could I do 6 of them and 6 peppered or false julli?
 

 
The cory sources recommend five minimum of a species, so I usually aim for that.  But various factors often means I only have three or four of the same species, sometimes even one or two (I might buy the last one or two they have in the store), but I have several species together, over forty now.  It is up to you whether you stay with one species or have multiple.  Some species tend to stay close to their own more than others, so the main thing is to have five or more corys, and when space is available always more.
 

Would I be able to add another school or maybe two of like say, 10 harlequin rasboras and maybe 10 bloodfin tetras? I thought those looked pretty cool.
 

 
Which tank is this...if the 50g, yes you can easily include other species in groups, but the 20g will take careful planning.  The bloodfins tend to be a bit nippy so keep this in mind.  Rasbora are very quiet fish.
 

On and as for quarantining....once my fish are all in there(I could probably keep both the 10 and 20 going for those purposes, do you medicate at all even for parasites or just leave the fish in there for a certain length of time and watch them?
 

 
Unless the fish show definite signs of disease, and you can diagnose reasonably accurately what it is, there is no value in using any medication or treatment, and this could actually be detrimental.  Any substances added to the water in a fish tank will almost always end up inside the fish because they "drink" by taking in water through the cells via osmosis, as well as in the gills where substances enter directly into the bloodstream.  And fish are affected by any substance, so it is best not to add them unless absolutely necessary.  Until I learned this, I killed fish simply with certain medications.
 
I leave new fish in QT for no less than four weeks, usually five or six, and sometimes even longer.  Disease like white spot is easy to spot, and will usually appear during the first two weeks, but many diseases may have no obvious external signs.  Aside from this, the time in QT is valuable to make sure the fish are eating what you feed them.
 

And I've got a silver maple in the back yard but its not quite ready to lose leaves yet. Would sycamore leaves work? Those are falling now. And do you leave them in there until they decay on their own or take them out after a bit? (Should I do this for the 50 gallon too?)
 

 
I don't know about sycamore leaves.  I do know that oak and beech are suggested on several sites, and maple was mentioned in an article in TFH.  Make sure the leaves are completely dead/dry, having fallen themselves from the tree.  Some people wash them, I never bother because the oak tree is in my rear garden and I know there are no pesticides, etc.  I collect them after they have been on the ground a few days, lay them out on paper towels to dry, then bag them.  In the tanks where I use these regularly as part of the substrate, I add a few leaves maybe once a month, depending how fast they fall apart.  When they begin to do this, you can remove them or leave them.  I stick them in one of the rear corners as they will float for a couple days before sinking, then I arrange them where I want them.  In the fry tank I add 2-3 leaves every water change, as this is the prime source of initial food for fry.
 
Almost every stream and creek in Amazonia is covered in a layer of fallen leaves, and much of SE Asia is similar.  So with fish from these areas, dead leaves are a very natural substrate.  
 

Ps- and if the 50 gallon water parameters are around the same as the other two tanks after the fishless cycle, can I just catch the fish out of the other two and put them straight into the 50?
 

 
I usually do this.  Sometimes with very delicate fish (I have a number of wild caught fish species) I might mix the waters from the two tanks, but for the species we are discussing here this shouldn't be necessary.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I would definitely have at least 6 cories. And if I did two species I'd have 6 of each.


And yes, I was talking about the 50 gallon on adding a couple more schools. I love the rasboras. I'll see what else petsmart has. They seem to be changing alot all the time anymore. For the 20 I just want to have a school of neons and some cories and the ottos. Though that seems like it will be a while down the road. Figured I'd use both the 10 and 20 for quarantining a couple different groups at a time. Then once I'm done stocking the 50 I can do the 20 like I want it to stay. Lol.

Now I just have to learn some patience! I'm excited that I get to pick up the 50 gallon on Tuesday. But I want to build a stand for it myself...and I have to make room in my living room for it to go which means my "office" has to be cleaned out so I can move a desk in there, but I have to paint in there first.....lol. Then when I get everything set up I will have to be patient while the tank cycles...but at least I can add my current fish after that and then go buy some others to quarantine.

Thanks so much for all the help and advise Byron! I greatly appreciate it. I'm so excited to be getting my first larger tank!
Kristen