How close to overstocked, or room for more?

[Talisman]

Hi i have the following fish (in my signature), minus one platie who after a sad couple of days gave up and died last night see ya little matey.

id like to put a few more in the tank in the next few weeks (months)

my partner wants a few guppies so i guess 3 female one male

id like to put a couple of discus fish in there something a bit bigger as the tank is huge and is crying out for a couple of good sized fish, and ive seen two i like in my LFS.

also maybe a couple of gouramis (ive spelt that wrong havent i)

last of all after all is settled and good i want to but a male betta in it.

is this far to much?

 

[kev_kb]

Not sure about your stocking cos I don't how large your tank is, but heres a couple of things I've spotted..

Disus are not easy fish to keep and you'll need to research them thoroughly before buying. They need a slightly higher temperature than most fish and they are not that easy to keep I believe. You need to keep 4-5 unless you have a breeding pair and I doubt your tank would be suitable.

Also Bettas should not be kept with Guppies, as they can mistake them for other males and will mostly fight. Personally I wouldn't put a Betta in such a large tank, maybe think about getting another tank for him say 5 gallons or so.

Gouramis are a more sensible option, some are big and aggressive, some are small and fairly peaceful so you should be able to find something suitable.

Also think about the size of the fish your keeping, I would assume a fully grown Discus would have no trouble fitting a Guppy in its mouth!

 

[Talisman]

hmmm missed 3 vital letters in my signature, corrected now.


its a 260ltr tank.

im not sure if the fish i saw fall into discus range, ill find out what they are called and research them first. thanks.

was gonna put betta with the guppies as i did years ago and they got on fine, but i see your point.

ill have a re think on that one. besides im having fungus probs, as i found out when i got home, so wont be doing much for a while now.

 

[sylvia]

Is 260ltrs about 65 gallons?

2 Zebra Danios
2 Scissortail
4 Platies
3 Platie Babies
2 Silver Sharks
8 Neon Cardinals
1 Spotted Bulldog Plec (lovely)

Discus are not only sensitive to water conditions but also are difficult to mix with other fish - especialy very active or aggressive fish. They'd eat your neons.
Those silver sharks (at 12 inches long) are deffinately active and should be kept in groups of *at least* 3 in a very large tank. I would suggest you get another one or more but your tank isn't realy large enough.

The scissortails are also shoaling fish, as are the zebra danios. I would add at least 3 more of each before thinking about other fish.

Guppies would make a good addition.

It *is* possible to keep bettas with guppies but the betta can often become aggressive.

However, you should *never* risk keeping a gourami with a betta unless you can monitor them non-stop for a day or two. Even then, the fish involved can change their minds as labyrinth fish have very varied characters and can be unpredictable.

I see nothing wrong with keeping bettas in large tanks provided they have suitable tank-mates.

Gouramies would work well in your tank. There are many to choose from but it all depends on what you like. Most won't bother your other fish - just each other.

If you are looking for something hardy - three-spots (opaline, blue, gold etc) are the way to go but they may bully fish like guppies and you should only get one male (pointed dorsal). They can be quite aggressive and territorial. Opaline is my favourite variety of three-spot.

Honey gouramies (NOT honey DWARF gouramies) are small and relatively peaceful. You should be able to keep several males, as well as females, in your tank as it is quite large. Males will develop a beautiful coloration once they are introduced to a healthy tank and treated correctly.

Moonlight gouramies are larger than even the three-spots but also less aggressive and make great additions. When viewed under good lighting, they have a faint purplish tinge which makes a beautiful contrast to their orange or yellow (females, males also have pointed dorsals BTW) ventral feelers. You could keep a few of these and males don't usualy fight.

Pearl gouramies are absolutely wonderful fish and IMO by far the most stunning. Especialy males in full color. They are the most peaceful trichogaster species IMO and I think a few of these, maybe a male and 3 females, would make an excellent addition to your tank. You *can* keep more males though they are territorial.

Avoid dwarf gouramies. Though they are smaal, beautiful and won't bother other fish, it is difficult to find females and you can only keep about 4 males without serious conflict if there are no females. More importantly, they carry many diseases due to mass production and in-breeding so they can easily catch all sorts of diseases and spread them through-out your tank.

There are other gouramies, such as sparklers and croaking, that do well in a community but they are often shy around large fish and sometimes more sensitive.

I should point out though, that considering the adult size of the silver sharks, you cannot actualy add any more fish. Consider moving them or something to free up space for other fish and give the sharks a more suitable home.

 

[Talisman]

Thanks Sylvia, yes its about 60g. and you have given me alot to think about there.

Think ill pull through my current crisis and look at things then.

 

[Sanj]

Ummm... Discus dont eat cardinals that is more the reputation of large angelfishm, but even here angels will not eat them if intorduced to aquariums as jueveniles which already contains cardinals or neons. infact cardinals are recomended with Discus as appropriate dither fish, one because they like the same water conditions soft and slightly acidic and two because they can tolerate the higher temperature that discus prefer to live in.

Definatley right about mixing them though, they are not that easy and do not like boisterous fish (silver sharks) and platys will not live in the water requirments of Discus.

It is possible to keep Discus in higher Ph and even slightly alkaline especially immature fish (good for growth), but in the long run it isnt good for them.

TBh if i were you I would not keep Discus unless you are setting an aquarium up with them specifically in mind and you tailor to their ideal conditions. You really could be wasting alot of money otherwise and have short lived fish.

If you live in the UK it isnt difficult to find female Gourami, of any species. Dwarfs and Honeys are usually sold in pairs by decent aquarium stores. However these two species dont like tanks that are too busy, the larger two spot or lace gouramis would be more suitable.

Ditto the comment on shoaling fish, you should try and avoid the ark syndrome of two's. These fish prefer to be in shoals of at least 5. That goes for the Zebra and the Scissor tails.

Bettas can be ok, but they will usually go for the finnage of male guppies. Also if you keep them dont add any fish like Tiger barbs they will rip their fins apart even if you get them in large enough groups.


Have you thought about have a large shoal of small fish, perhaps getting more cardinals? would look spectacular.

Good luck anyway.

 

[Talisman]

Hi Sanj

I know i said discus, but im not sure if they were to be honest, they were the size of an apple, but cant remember what the name was on the glass. this i will find out before adding (if i add them that is, im sure going to do my homework before adding anymore fish)

I did ask at the time about the zebras and scissor fish if they needed to be in groups or not and my LFS guy said no they would be ok.

I trust this guy, he is the only one in town with a really good reputation and ive watched him move from smaller shops to bigger better shops. Ive never seen a dead fish in his tanks, all are very clean healthy looking fish, and he is very knowledgeble.

anyway by the by, he was wrong on this one from the sounds of it.

I dont mind increasing the zebras and scissor, i just wanted to put a decent sized fish in the tank as an eye catcher, the tank is so big it just seems to cry out for it.

and when the silver sharks got really big, i was going to take them back to the shop and exchange for something else (more colourful).

 

[Sanj]

He is right that you can keep zebra danios, rasboroas or tetras in one s or twos, they will survive, but they will not be as comfortable without the security of a larger group and they will not behave natuarally because they do not have enough members of their own species to interact with.

Even so these guys will look better in larger groups and you have the space for it. You could still keep some 'show piece ' fish.

Angelfish grow to a good size like discus and the common strains (i.e not the expensive altums) are quite tolerant of broader water conditions. However caution on Angelfish because they do have the potential to eat the likes of neons/cardinals when fully grown (6" diameter). Like I said though if intorduced when smal ~ 2" and if the tank already has good sized cardinals in they are likley not to associate them as food and leave them alone.

Some of the larger rainbows can be striking when mature, their colouration can take a couple of years to develop fully. a group of Boesmani rainbows half hyello/ornge other half silver blue are very striking. Red New Guinea rainbow is pretty impressive. These fish grow to 3.5-4" in length, but they also become very deep bodied so look fairly sizable.

Redline torpedo barbs grow to 6" look like Bala/silver sharks but have illluminous red streak across thier body and bright yellow tail spots. These are expensive though £10-20+ each. However once established in your aquarium will be hardy. I have 6 of these in one of my aquariums...very nice, one of my favourites.

 

[Talisman]

Mannnnnnnnn so much choice out there lol.

I did think of a couple of angel fish to be honest and my LFS guy said exactly what you just did, thats why i got the neons now, so that if i went that way the neons would be happy were they were and when intuducing a young pair of angels they would be safe.

As for all the rst, im going to be surfing the web all day looking at pics now and not doing any work..............

............. such a chore lol

Sanj, big kisses to you, thanks XXXXXXXXXXXXXx )

 

[sylvia]

Rainbows can eat neons.

I think a gourami would look very beautiful in your tank and it wouldn't eat any of your fish. I already told you that

I know angelfish won't necessarily eat neons but there is always the chance they will and I preffer to not risk my fish' lives so I would suggest you don't go for angels.

the common strains (i.e not the expensive altums) are quite tolerant of broader water conditions.

Altums are not a strain, they are a species - pterophyllum altum . They are deffinately a bad choice, I agree, and require specific water conditions. The common angels you see are pterophyllum scalare. The common striped strain is the hardiest. More fancy varieties are a little more fragile (such as koi), mostly due to in-breeding and selecting for appearance rather than health or hardiness. The veil-tail and longer-finned varieties require a taller tank than the plainer types though your tank should be tall enough so it isn't an issue for you .

A

 

[Talisman]

thanks sylvia. ill find u nearer the time and discuss gouramis with u if thats ok.

 

[sylvia]

sure