Hospital tanks...

Magnum Man

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since I don't have a local fish store, & I'm forced to mail order any fish, lately I've been thinking about a Hospital tank... this differs from a quarantine tank, in that I think I need more "rooms" with tanks that run the gambit between hard water rainbow tanks, to soft water, some hedging towards black water tanks... & all my tanks, that are set up right now, are 45 gallons & bigger, medicating tanks requires more medication... going back to mail ordering fish, I don't get to pick them out, & right now the fish ( not the bag water ) go right into the tanks... if I get a fish that's not "perfect" it would be nice to have a "room" to treat each fish... some may need worming, some may just need a little salt, some may just need quarantining, prior to going into their "forever homes" I'm thinking a set of 5 or10 gallon tanks... with labels, that are marked with what type of water, what type of medicine, etc, ... maybe 3-4, or 5 of them turned sideways & set on a traditional sized stand...

I kind of did this before, when I had about 40 smaller tanks, I had one small closet, that I put shelves across & stacked 10 gallon tanks floor to ceiling, across the door way, far enough back, that I could close the door if I wanted...

where I'm at now, no spare closet space, but maybe if the tanks are small enough, I could put them in my work area behind my built in tanks...

anyone have anything similar, & or suggestions???
 
I'm bringing this back up, because I have recently gotten some fish that didn't look to good, when received... not having a quarantine tank, the fish went right into their prospective tanks to get better... one resulting in my rainbow fish getting ich... I have too much money & time tied up in a couple aquariums that are nearly "done", to add sick fish directly into them... so this week I'm ordering 2 - 5.5 gallon aquariums I have a spot for them in the work area behind my fish tanks... I'm doing 2 tanks because I have both hard & soft water tanks...

so a couple questions if you guys would be so kind... should these tanks be cycled with a "treat all medication" already in the water??? or does it need to be added fresh every time I add a fish???

also I'm considering adding as part of the "hospital", a nurse fish... ( an extension of my "ammonia crew" ) a small fish that would live permanently in these hospital tanks, to keep some beneficial bacteria going in a small filter in each tank... or does cure all ich medicine also kill beneficial bacteria???

or... I'm kind of thinking since this "hospital" area, is right next to the tank that has my Bichir in it, I could keep a few feeder fish, as the nurse fish in these tanks, insuring I'm not adding anything bad into my Bichir tank, by way of the feeders...

also I have not run across any thing like a net dip... I have separate nets now for each tank, but I'm worried a little, as I used a net from one tank, to add some giant duckweed to the tank that now has ich... I didn't put any fish between tanks, but it took repeated dips to move as much of the giant duckweed as I wanted to transfer, & of course this was before the ich showed up in that tank... note to self... you need more separation, but anyone have a recommendation for a net dip solution???
 
BTW... any suggestions for medications??? just looking, it seems like Hikari Ich X gets good reviews... other suggestions???
 
Most of the time medication destroys the bacteria in the filter. I use old time Hagen bubble filters, I let it run in my main tank to get filled with bacteria. Then if there is a problem / new arrival, I pop it in the quarantine tank. This way they are always "cycled" and ready to sacrifice if need be.
 
If you keep the quarantine tanks full of plants, you won't need to cycle them. They can be reject bits of plant from your other tanks, or even cheap newly bought plants. That's how I set up my quarantine tanks - set them up when I need them, move floating plants over from my main tank and buy a few bunches of anacharis/elodea at the same time as fish. I've never seen a trace of ammonia or nitrite doing this.


Ich medication doesn't usually harm filter bacteria but they often kill invertebrates - if there are snails or shrimps in the tank they have to be removed.
 
Hospital and quarantine are one of the things most people who even try do wrong. Very few people try.

First, the tank must be cycled. It must be large enough that it isn't a cause of stress, or a trigger for disease that would not otherwise be a problem. And it has to be large enough for the length of quarantine needed.

I keep extra filters cycled in tanks, for use when needed.

It's hard to do this right unless you have a dedicated fishroom. I qt everything in large enough tanks that they could become permanent homes. Often they do. After a few weeks to months, the new arrivals can be moved into permanent homes with other fish.

You can't do this if you have new fish coming in as fast as you do, @Magnum Man . And a 5 gallon can quarantine one or two rummy nose sized fish. Beyond that, it can be a contributing factor for disease. How would you do a standard 3 to 12 week QT in a 5?

There is no such thing as valid treat all type remedy. I medicate if I can identify what I'm treating for. I keep Ich meds here, plus dewormers, but only use them if I am certain. I do my water changes religiously and watch for as long as it takes.

Sometimes, I live dangerously. We all do. It can be unfair to the fish though.
 
I have space for 10 gallons, or maybe a bit more ( 10's will require a more creative stand in the space I have ) but 10 gallons are basically the same price as 5.5 gallon tanks... so I can do at least that much... to do larger than 10 gallons requires a much more expensive tank, or the use of a plastic tote or similar...

I don't like medicating anything... but am at the point that I don't want to introduce anything new to most of my tanks... luckily the Ich outbreak is in a tank that had issues & is being redecorated ( not one that I consider "done" )...

I like the idea of both plants & extra filters running... I have a lot of Java ferns, that have babies detaching all the time, as most of my tanks have quite a bit of flow... & also have lots of floaters that a few could be moved, when new patients come in...

I'm assuming Parasite & Fungus medicines would not kill beneficial bacteria, but anything that says it treats bacterial infections, is going to kill the beneficial bacteria???
 
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You are in a different scene altogether. Antibiotics are never sold over the counter where I live. They haven't been for ages.
I'm assuming Parasite & Fungus medicines would not kill beneficial bacteria, but anything that says it treats bacterial infections, is going to kill the beneficial bacteria???

Don't make that assumption. Every med has its own profile. A lot of antibiotics only kill specific bacteria, and are used in a knowledge based targetting way. I have no knowledge of what bacterium is doing the damage, so I would not use them.

To go through Ich and velvet QT, I keep a bare tank. You have to see it, and not have bodies behind the plants. Ich is easy if you are quick. Malachite green and it's dead, while your fish aren't.
Columnaris/flavibacter was the last one that came here on a bought fish. That one was a challenge. I lost that battle, and a bunch of fish.

I also had a non Camallanus nematode creep in recently. It was probably unseen for a long time, but was easily killed off and the affected fish are rebounding now.
 
I've heard of using Methylene blue... I've only ever seen Malachite green used as a pigment
 
It's still an organic monochloride salt. Ich probably doesn't like that at all. But it's mostly used for it's anti-fungal properties in aquaculture.
 
I can find Malachite green, but no dosages... this product comes up under a Malachite green search... but I can't find Malachite green listed with it at all

 
What I have here is Zink Free Malachite Green 0.75%

Discontinue Carbon Filtration. One drop per gallon every other day. For a total of 3 Treatment.

Use 1/2 Dose for Tetra, Baby Fish, Catfish and Loaches.

This thing is a quite powerful oxidant avoid contact with skin and if it gets in your eyes flush under water for 15 minutes.

And it's also Banned in many countries with tolerance zero now.
 
A quarantine aquarium need not be fancy . A plain aquarium with no substrate . Paint or cover the sides , back and bottom . Add whatever water - your tap or special R/O blend - and keep the fish in there for however long suits you . Also , no lighting . I would say no filtration either , just an air stone . Do a daily water change .
 
Continuing on this subject… I have ordered 4 - 10 gallon aquariums for quarantine/ hospital/ holding tanks for feeders… building stands is next, space is tight, but I’ll be doing 2 stacks of 2 tanks… I’ll have to turn them sideways, and they will only be visible from the work area behind my tanks… so the viewable/ working area, will 11 inches wide, by 12.5 inches high, with 6 inches of open area above each tank… it’ll be tight, but I hope serviceable… 2 tanks will be quarantine/ hospital tanks… one each matching the water in both my hard water & soft water tanks… on the other stack, one will be a feeder holding tank, and the 4th tank will be extra with soft water, as the bulk of my main tanks are soft… but I can easily switch it over if my Tilapia get going, and I need a tank to put fry into or???
 
You know me and being long winded. Please bear in mind what follows is how I do things. It is my way but by no means the only way. But it works for me.

I deal with Q and H tanks differently. I do not usually waste filters on H tanks for one simple reason, I do not know what I might have to treat until I am faced with a specific problem. It is at that point I must decide what a fish might have and then figure out the best form of treatment. Some of those treatments can destroy a cycled filter making it useless. Some things may contaminate filter media and stick around. So I have a protocol for H tanks which does not normally involve a cycled filter.

I medicate according to the direction for the med. But I change water in the H tank aggressively. At the vert least it is 50% every other day. This may effect meds which need to stay in the water. In such cases when I refill the tank I replace the amount of medication I removed. A 50% water change means a 50% dose of replacement meds. If a dose of the med is normally due on a day where I normally change water, I will change the water then dose- obviously.

But there can be a variety of things one might have to treat and some treatments will not bother one's filtration. So I want to have such an H tank filtered. I have two option here. One is that I always have a small bottle of Dr. Tim's One and Only bacteria in the fridge. But at times I also have my bio-farm running and this contains several cycled sponge/foam filters. These are able to have a 10 gal. or 20 gal. tank instantly cycled. The nice thing about this is that those filters may also go into a Q tank.

I keep a medical kit with an assortment of meds. I only use these when I know what I need and my H tanks are always empty and sterile until needed. I also keep some plastic plants and other decor to provide cover for the patient which usually helps to keep them less stressed. The one thing that doesn't even go into an H tank is wood. The reason is simple, if I use an H tank, never accurately diagnose and medicate using my best guess and the fish dies, I have to sterilize the tank and all its content after I lose the patient. Or I may accurately diagnose but fail in treating, depending on the problem the tank contents may also need to be sterilized. For this I use bleach.

And for this reason I never use live plants in an H tank.

Now as for the idea that one can keep an H tank with a broad treatment med in it at all times will not work. Meds do not last in the water for extended periods unless one is treating with salt. Consider antibiotics. We are usually dosing these for about a week or 10 days for a full round of traetment and we are usually dosing the medication every day or every other day. That is done for two reasons. The first is that a single treatment is not sufficient and the second is the medication doesn't last. Antibiotics will degrade and become useless over time. Other meds will outlast their expiration date.

A good clue as to how long any given treatment might last in the water should be obvious from the directions. If multiple dosing is required that is usually because the med fades and must be re-added to maintain the needed dose. Trying to keep a general med in open H tanks wont work well because of this and then what if the general med is not the right one? Only medicate when you have a good idea of what is wrong and how to treat it. Of course there is always the best guess soltuin where if nothing is tried the patient will die. Using the wrong med here and having the fish die is no worse than not treating and having it die. So in some cases we must take out best shot.

In an H tank one of two outcomes is possible, we diagnose correctly, treat with the right med and the fish recovers. So we know what we need to do. This can be as simple as rinsing everything well and it is safe because we have wiped out the cause. On the other hand, when it may be something virulent and contagious and we fail to find the right med. Then and the fish dies and we need either to sterilize everything or we kave to throw it away, This would include live plants or some cycled media or substrate if we used them. I try only to put things into an H tank I can bleach and re-use if I have to.

It is important to understand than in most cases of something serious, the patient will likely be recovering or dead withn a couple of weeks or less. In all my 23+ years of keeping fish, I have only ever had to do a long term treatment routine once. I was treating a large clown loach (10 inches)with a severe case of wasting disease. Long story short the final straw was to pull it from the 150 gal. to a fully cycled H tank. The meds I planned to used would not harm the filter. If I eliminated the cause, I would then need to power feed the fish for some time to restore its signifivant loss of body mass. The treatments worked and the fish was in the 20L for about another 6 weeks if I remember right. When it left, I converted the tank for other uses and fish. I just did a few water changes, ran it empty and was dosing ammonia and then it was a regular tank in a couple of weeks.

My idea of an H tank is an empty tank, an air powered stone or cheap foam, a heater, fake plants and decor. All of it must be OK to be bleached. When I need it, I set it up the H tank and am ready to go pretty fast.

Now how about Q? This is a more interesting challenge based on how one approaches the time a new fish needs to be in the tank and healthy. I have a basic rule that works for me. Most of my newly acquired fish come shipped to me. But some I do pick up. Depending on the source, I use the following rules:

- If the fish originate in this country by being born here or are from tanks I know to have done a proper Q and have had the fish for some time, I Q for 30 days.

- If the fish are imported and/or or are wild caught, or if they are from any source I cannot trust, then I Q for 90 days.

The above times are not an absolute, They mean that number of consecutive days with no issues. So if it turns out after 60 days a wild caught fish evidences something that developed slowly, and I then treat it successfully, the Q calendar resets to 0.

So, I tend to approach Q as cross between a real home and an H tank. Most times I leave both an H or Q tank either bare bottom or with a light colored sand. I want to be able to monitor both food and poop. I am willing to add some live plants to a Q tank understanding they may have to be thrown out. So I do not overdo this. I use potted and/or floating plants. The same applies to a piece of wood where appropriate. This may have to be dried out or even thrown out if it might harbor eggs from something for some time even when dry. Fake wood is sine as it can be bleached.

Really, there are two concerns with either type of tank. One is that they serve their purpose well in terms of size and contents while not being hard to maintain. The other is that we want to minimize the level of stress the inhabitants and patients may undergo. Some meds are not fun for the patient. Being shipped, handled bagged, shipped again and then dropped into a strange environment is not exactly the ideal way to live a low stress life. So the journey of new fish to us means how we do Q is important. The same applies to how we treat sick fish besides the medicating part.

Phew- my keyboard is smokin

edited to remove the word and where it did not belong.
🔥
 
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