Hillstream Loach Disease -- Crazy Ideas Welcome.

[mikev]

I've apparently encountered a new hillstream killer.

Unfortunately, there is very little of information on what this is, so there is a need for some crazy guesses. The disease came with a shipment of chenis and is slowly killing them (both in my place and at the store).
There are no symptoms, nothing seen on the autopsy, and the tank params are fine.

Death pattern so far:
Day 16: 2
Day 23: 1
Day 27: 1 <today>

Treatment so far:
Levimisole (2 rounds)
Maracyn+Maracyn2 == 5 days
Maracyn2 alone == 13 days

(Maracyn2 was used due to the suspicion of the Patchy disease from the beginning -- it obviously did not do much. Most of the treatment was done prior to any deaths. The disease is certainly infectious. None of the dead fish -- and none of the alive as of now -- had obvious patches.)

This is about as much as I have -- I wish I had something else to go on....

The death pattern, however, seems very strange to me --- it really takes very long time for this bug to kill very small fish, and in the process the fish does not appear unhealthy (unless this bug spends most of its life cycle in the water....)

Any good (or bad) guesses and ideas are welcome at this point.
So are suggestions of any drugs that *may* do something good and less likely to make the situation worse.

Given that it is unlikely that anyone has the exact answer, what I'm actually looking for are crazy ideas....anything I can try other than simply waiting for the fish to die.

TIA

 

[tttnjfttt]

Well, you probably aren't gonna like this, but it really sounds like you have done almost everything possible. Diseases are broken down into several categories, bacterial, parasites, fungal, viral, and tumors. Bacterial, parasites, and fungal infectinons are treatable. Right now, you have tried treating for bacterial (maracyn and maracyn 2) and interanal parasites. external parasites and fungus are easy to spot.

The only thing I can think of is trying a different antibiotic. I know Kanacyn (aka kanamycin, k-mycin) is very good, i think it is even more effective than the Maracyns, however it is a pain in the butt to find.

Ok, so there were two things I could think of. How did the fish react to the levasole (sp?)? were there lots of worms expelled?

 

[mikev]

Thanks, tttnjfttt!

Ok, kanamycin may be something to look into indeed. You have any idea how bad it is for the cycling bacteria?

Any idea if a treatment with something like malachite green (or meth blue, or something else like this) may do any good? (I think these poisons do kill some bacteria and they -- I believe -- were used before antibiotics)

On levimisole:

Interestingly, I was not able to find any dead worms after any of the treatments -- I do know it was successful, since I saw quick and radical change in fish, and I even saw some live worms sticking out of a fish once -- but no dead ones found, and I was looking through the gravel suc junk...

No negative effects noticed other than temporary loss of appetite with fish that had worms; in case of one clown it was for two weeks, but usually for no more than a couple of days. No losses.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Kanacyn is a very good antibioitic. It also doesn't (in my experience) harm the biological filter. I have seen it remove the columnaris fuzz in one day, and treat a case of septcemia very effectively. I would be hesitant to treat with malachite green or methaline blue because i know then can be very rough on scaleless fish.

Another idea since you haven't seen the worms from internal parasites expelled would be to treat with a higher dose of levasole for a shorter time. I know Tokis' vet told her to do this, but she lost the directions before they could be posted. Maybe part of the problem is the dead worms inside the fish?

 

[tttnjfttt]

One other thing I just thought about, it is possible they didn't have internal parasites. The Levamisole is comonly used as for AIDS patients because it can also stimulatle appitite and boost the immune system....

 

[mikev]

Kanacyn is a very good antibioitic. It also doesn't (in my experience) harm the biological filter. I have seen it remove the columnaris fuzz in one day, and treat a case of septcemia very effectively. I would be hesitant to treat with malachite green or methaline blue because i know then can be very rough on scaleless fish.

I've used malachite green pretty routinely w/o problems on scaleless/small fish (half dosing), so I'm not too worried about it; I'm much more concerned about damaging the biofilter. Good to know that Kanacyn worked for you.

Am I right that the only way to get it now is Kanaflex?

Another idea since you haven't seen the worms from internal parasites expelled would be to treat with a higher dose of levasole for a shorter time. I know Tokis' vet told her to do this, but she lost the directions before they could be posted. Maybe part of the problem is the dead worms inside the fish?

No, I'm fairly sure that worms are not involved here at all. I used and mentioned deworming just to exclude them from consideration.---I've had another case of symptomless killer a while back which turned out to be nematodes, and given that levimisole is safe, it is simplest just to use it and not have to think about the internal parasites.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Back in January, i found Kanacyn at the LFS. However, i recently needed it again, but checked at 4 stores and was not able to find it. I'm not sure if that is because it has been discontinued, or if it is just hard to find.