High Nitrite & Cloudy Water After 1 Month

[greengoddess]

Hi everyone,

My kids got two goldfish for Christmas and I have had a nightmare trying to make them comfortable (the fish, not the kids).
I have read so many forum messages but I am still confused as to what to do.

Here's the deal:

The tank is a "Moby Dick" 25 litre tank with electric filter. I set the tank up and let it sit running for two days before putting in the fish (ideally I would have left it sitting for a few weeks first but the goldfish were in a small nasty plastic bowl and were very unhappy so I decided to put them in the new tank. For a week or so everything was OK but the water has been really cloudy for the last 3 weeks. I have been doing 30% water changes every two or 3 days to try and clear it. It looks a little better immediately after a water change but then the next day it is as cloudy as hell again. I bought a testing kit and the problem seems to be high Nitrite levels.

Here's today's results:

pH = 6.2
Ammonia = near zero
Nitrite = 0.6mg/L (according to my testing kit, anything over 0.3mg/L is very nasty)
Nitrate = (I've forgotten the result but I think it was fairly low).

I have been adding "Safestart" de-chlorinator to the tap water before putting it in the tank during water changes. I have also been adding "Easybalance" weekly.

So, what do I need to do to get this sorted out? I was thinking about doing more frequent water changes, adding aquarium salt and also adding one of those bacterial kick start magic solutions.

The other important point is that we are going away for a week on Saturday so I am worried that the fish might be belly up when we return.

Please help, many thanks.

 

[Harlequins]

Hi and welcome

Unfortunately,your tank filter has not cycled yet to handle the bio load of your fish,you're doing well doing waterchanges,this will keep the fish from suffering too much.
The cloudy tank is from bacteria bloom,you get this from new tank set up.
Have a read in the beginners resource centre,here it tells up about cycling and the nitrogen cycle.there's a link under my signature pic
Easybalance isn't worth putting in at the moment,has the tank isn't settled.
Aquarium salt is usually only added to treat ailments,where goldfish are concerned,and bacteria in a bottle is very hit and miss whether they work or not.
Your dechlorinator is it tetra safestart or aquasafe? tetra safestart is not a dechlorinator.

And lastly 2 goldfish cannot be kept very long in a 25 litre tank,one goldfish needs a minimum 20gals and 2 needs 30 gals,these grow very large and are pond fish.

At the moment your best bet is to test your ammonia and nitrite daily if they are over zero then do a 50% waterchange
Good luck

 

[greengoddess]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. The de-chlorinator I'm using must be Aquasafe (I can't check because I'm at work at the moment). I suspected the cloudiness must be due to the start up of the tank. I was just a bit concerned about the high nitrite levels. I read somewhere else that using aquarium salt would help reduce the negative effects of nitrite on the fish, not sure about that though.

So, basically, I just need to keep changing the water more often until it clears. Is that correct? Will the fish not suffer if I change 50% of the water daily?

I was also worried about the size of the tank for the fish. They were given to us in a crappy plastic goldfish bowl that probably held 5 litres. I didn't have much spare cash so I dashed out and spent £100 on this 25 litre setup. How long do you think I have until I need to get a bigger tank? I was hoping this one would last for years.

One final question. I have a plant in the fish tank. Will this be having a negative effect on the quality of the water?

 

[Harlequins]

Waterchanges are better than having your fish poisoned by ammonia or nitrite.

Leave off the salt & easy balance and just do waterchanges with dechlorinator,the cloudy will eventually go has the tank becomes established.

Tanks can be bought cheaper online,it won't take long for the goldfish to outgrow the tank,unfortunately alot of fish become stunted being in a small tank,and although the body stops growing,the internal organs carry on growing,leaving the fish dying an uncomfortable death.

Plants are fine in the tank and will probably help absorb any ammonia etc.

I'm sure someone else more knowledgeable will be along to help more

 

[Assaye]

Hi everyone,

My kids got two goldfish for Christmas and I have had a nightmare trying to make them comfortable (the fish, not the kids).
I have read so many forum messages but I am still confused as to what to do.

Hiya!

Goldfish, eh? This we can help with but you might not like the advice

What kind of goldfish are they?

Here's the deal:

The tank is a "Moby Dick" 25 litre tank with electric filter. I set the tank up and let it sit running for two days before putting in the fish (ideally I would have left it sitting for a few weeks first but the goldfish were in a small nasty plastic bowl and were very unhappy so I decided to put them in the new tank. For a week or so everything was OK but the water has been really cloudy for the last 3 weeks. I have been doing 30% water changes every two or 3 days to try and clear it. It looks a little better immediately after a water change but then the next day it is as cloudy as hell again. I bought a testing kit and the problem seems to be high Nitrite levels.

A few things going on here.

Firstly, your fish will not survive in that tank. Depending on the species of goldfish, they will reach anything from 8 inches to 24 inches in maturity. They are also exceptionally fast growers so a small tank like that will only last them a couple of months at best. If they feel their environment is too small, they will stunt their own growth as a survival mechanism . . . which will end up causing them immense suffering and could very easily kill them.

The kind of tanks these fish need are huge - a good rule of thumb is that fish need at least six times their body length to swim and three times their body length as the tank width. So a 6 inch fish would need a 36 inch (3 foot) tank. A 12 inch fish would need a 6 foot tank. A 24 inch fish . . . get a pond, lol. Your goldfish are going to get somewhere in the middle (unless you got them commons goldfish - the 'normal' looking orange ones). You're looking at a 4 foot tank for the little guys as a minimum and aim for at least 150 litres for the pair, preferably close to 200 litres.

These little guys also live for 20-40 years, so getting them comfortable now is a priority to avoid an unpleasant and untimely death.

Leaving the tank set up for a few extra days/weeks will achieve nothing in terms of preparing the tank for fish. Your only two options to prepare a tank for fish are a fishless cycle and a fish-in cycle (which you are now experiencing). A fish-in cycle involves using fish waste and other organic matter (decaying food, etc) to cultivate a colony of exceptionally important bacteria in your filter. Without the bacteria, the fish will simply stew in their own waste until they get sick and die. This, combined with small tanks, is why many people can't get their goldfish to live beyond a few months or a handful of years.

In order to make this fish-in cycle safe for the fish, you need to help them out. You're already doing small water changes every few days. It's a good start but unfortunately it is not enough. With two goldfish in a tiny tank, you need to be doing more like 75% a day to get ammonia and nitrites to zero. While this is going on, a small "background" level of these chemicals will feed the bacteria in the filter but until the filter is "mature" (i.e. has enough bacteria so that you never see ammonia and nitrite in the tank) you'll need to keep testing the water and helping the fish with daily water changes.

Here's today's results:

pH = 6.2
Ammonia = near zero
Nitrite = 0.6mg/L (according to my testing kit, anything over 0.3mg/L is very nasty)
Nitrate = (I've forgotten the result but I think it was fairly low).

Ammonia needs to be zero. It's close, which is a good sign, but even tiny levels cause long term damage to the fish. Nitrite is also very nasty and you need to change enough water every day to get it down to zero. Don't worry too much about nitrate now.

I have been adding "Safestart" de-chlorinator to the tap water before putting it in the tank during water changes. I have also been adding "Easybalance" weekly.

That's all good. Once your filter is mature and the goldfish are in a large enough tank, you won't need to use Easy Balance anymore.

So, what do I need to do to get this sorted out? I was thinking about doing more frequent water changes, adding aquarium salt and also adding one of those bacterial kick start magic solutions.

The other important point is that we are going away for a week on Saturday so I am worried that the fish might be belly up when we return.

Please help, many thanks.

They need a bigger tank. In your small tank with a filter that can't cope with their waste = dead fish. You will be very unlikely to find them alive when you return.

If you can't get them a proper tank sorted (even 60 or so litres would be a decent temporary measure) before you go away, you need to rehome them or take them back to the shop.

In terms of how to deal with the uncycled tank . . . bacterial kick start solutions will do nothing. Get some zeolite. This stuff can be put into filters and will chemically remove ammonia. Without ammonia, you won't get nitrites. These are not a good long term measure but will do for a week while you go away. Make sure you put it into the filter after the normal sponge, so that the water hits the sponge first. That way you cans till grow your bacteria and the zeolite will just help the filter out with the excess.

Good luck. Goldfish are not for the faint hearted. This link covers all the beginner stuff.

A final word - please don't be tempted to 'flush' them or anything. It is probably one of the nastiest ways to "put fish out of their misery". If you can't look after them, take them back to the shop or find someone who can foster them until you can find them a decent longterm home.

 

[greengoddess]

Thank you again. This is really helpful information. I didn't realise looking after goldfish was so intensive. OK, I will start budgeting for a new tank. I was worried about buying one online in case it arrived with a leak. I suppose it's a risk worth taking if the savings are considerable. I will keep up with the water changes. I am particularly worried about the fish next week when we are going away for a week. I will make sure the water is changed and the filter system is cleaned out just before we go but there's not much else I can do.

Thanks again.

 

[Assaye]

Thank you again. This is really helpful information. I didn't realise looking after goldfish was so intensive. OK, I will start budgeting for a new tank. I was worried about buying one online in case it arrived with a leak. I suppose it's a risk worth taking if the savings are considerable. I will keep up with the water changes. I am particularly worried about the fish next week when we are going away for a week. I will make sure the water is changed and the filter system is cleaned out just before we go but there's not much else I can do.

Thanks again.

Look into the zeolite. I think API do something called Nitra-Zorb that is very similar.

If you want a decent temporary measure, get a new plastic storage tub. The bigger the better - you could probably find a 90 litre one for £10-£30. It won't look pretty but will sure give them some space and will help dilute any nasties and give your filter some time to sort the water out.

 

[greengoddess]

Hi Assaye,

Thank you so much for going into so much detail and taking so much time to help. I love animals and fish so "flushing" will never be an option.

The two fish we have are both fantails. One measures approximately 2.75 inches including tail and the other is smaller at around 2.5 inches.

Taking them back to the shop is not really an option. Their tank is around 10 gallon and houses approximately TWENTY goldfish. Most aquapet places around here are the same, loads of fish stuffed into small tanks.

I am going to start 75% daily water changes immediately. I will also get hold of some zeolite and start putting that into the filter system.

Do I need to regularly vaccuum the gravel or should I forget about that for now?

 

[drobbyb]

Vacuum every waterchange. Fish poo and food that hasn't been eaten all produce ammonia and enter the equation.

The zeolite is a good idea for while you are away. You should remove it though when you return so that the bacteria you currently have won't die off due to starvation, making you start over.

In terms of where you are in your cycle, with nitrites appearing and ammonia levels going down, you are almost halfway. Cycles take as long as they take. Some people get it done in 3 weeks and others take 12 weeks sometimes.

 

[greengoddess]

Vacuum every waterchange. Fish poo and food that hasn't been eaten all produce ammonia and enter the equation.

The zeolite is a good idea for while you are away. You should remove it though when you return so that the bacteria you currently have won't die off due to starvation, making you start over.

In terms of where you are in your cycle, with nitrites appearing and ammonia levels going down, you are almost halfway. Cycles take as long as they take. Some people get it done in 3 weeks and others take 12 weeks sometimes.

Great, many thanks. I will vaccuum at every change. I didn't realise the cycling could take as long as 12 weeks, that's a bit of a relief really as I thought I was doing something wrong. I must resign myself to buying another tank very soon.

 

[Assaye]

Hi Assaye,

Thank you so much for going into so much detail and taking so much time to help. I love animals and fish so "flushing" will never be an option.

The two fish we have are both fantails. One measures approximately 2.75 inches including tail and the other is smaller at around 2.5 inches.

Taking them back to the shop is not really an option. Their tank is around 10 gallon and houses approximately TWENTY goldfish. Most aquapet places around here are the same, loads of fish stuffed into small tanks.

I am going to start 75% daily water changes immediately. I will also get hold of some zeolite and start putting that into the filter system.

Do I need to regularly vaccuum the gravel or should I forget about that for now?

Glad to hear you're a real animal lover! A lady at work asked me for help with her sick fish and admitted to flusing her male molly because she thought he was too far gone to save. Poor little guy.

Fantails - both a blessing and a curse. A blessing because they can easily be housed in aquariums and a curse because you can't just put them in a pond (as you can with common goldfish). If you can, get them a large temporary tank (even if it is just a large tub) and that should help with the water quality. Remember to keep the filter with the fish!

I know the feeling. I don't take fish back because I know that they'll probably go to a worse home. I tend to just buy a new tank, lol. However, needs must, etc. If you can house them temporarily and get the a bigger tank within the next month or so, then keep them. If you can't get them a new tank, you are better off taking them back. Most shops have really good filtration systems even if the tanks are small, and most shops move their stock through very quickly.

In terms of tanks - aim for 150 litres and see how it goes. If they stay small-ish (ie. 6 to 8 inches) then they should be fine as long as they have a 4 foot tank. Be prepared for tank upgrades in the future, though.

Definitely clean the gravel. Dirty gravel contributes to poor water quality.

Vacuum every waterchange. Fish poo and food that hasn't been eaten all produce ammonia and enter the equation.

The zeolite is a good idea for while you are away. You should remove it though when you return so that the bacteria you currently have won't die off due to starvation, making you start over.

In terms of where you are in your cycle, with nitrites appearing and ammonia levels going down, you are almost halfway. Cycles take as long as they take. Some people get it done in 3 weeks and others take 12 weeks sometimes.

Zeolite shouldn't starve the bacteria, as long as the water hits the biological media before the chemical media. Exhausted zeolite just becomes more media for the bacteria.

 

[greengoddess]

This forum is amazing! So many replies so quickly and all with fantastic information. Thank you so much.

I have decided that if I am going to buy another tank then I am going to do it correct from the start to save money and hassle in the long run. I have scoured the internet and have found some 200 and 240 litre aquariums at attractive prices. With over 200 litres to swim around in they should be much happier and may give me the option to add another fish in the future. I will make a good job of the new tank as I am a perfectionist. Buying a new tank so soon is unexpected but a necessity so I have no choice.

My priority at the moment is to help my two fish through the next two or three weeks, especially whilst I am away for a week. Both fish look remarkably heathy and happy considering the current condition of the water and the small tank. First job this week will be to get hold of some Zeolite. This will be a hassle because I live in Cumbria (where those recent terrible floods washed away our bridges making travelling a total nightmare). Nevertheless, I'll make sure I do it.

Thank you again for giving up your time and offering such great advice.

 

[drobbyb]

Zeolite shouldn't starve the bacteria, as long as the water hits the biological media before the chemical media. Exhausted zeolite just becomes more media for the bacteria.

I guess it would depend on the individual filter and it's design how the zeolite goes in. I didn't think about putting it after the biological filtration. I've heard both sides of the story on zeolite, but I've never used it myself, so I trust your judgment.

 

[greengoddess]

Just an update to say thanks to those kind people on here who helped with this. I have done two 75% water changes (one yesterday, one today) and added some zeolite to the filter system today. The difference in the tank is amazing with nitrite levels dropping dramatically. I took the charcoal filter out so I could fit the zeolite in. Is the charcoal filter important? My filter comprises of two sponges, one heavy gauage spoinge and one finer sponge with the new zeolite now last in the line after the two sponges.

 

[waterdrop]

No, the carbon is not important. Carbon's primary purpose is as a "chemical media" and is used for mostly for special purposes such as removing medications after they've been used or removing yellow tannins that leach from wood. Under most circumstances carbon only lasts for 3 days and then is ready to be removed and tossed. This is why most aquarists in normal situations do not use it continuously - it would just be too expensive.

Very good and detailed advice up above. It can be a difficult choice to provide a large tank with good filtration and good maintenance for a pair of goldfish, but if you decide its worth it then its nice to learn the right way of going about it.

~~waterdrop~~