High Nitrate & Ick?

[sara213]

Tank size: 15g

pH: 7.6
ammonia: 0 ppm
nitrite: 0ppm
nitrate: 40 ppm
kH: N/A going to get those test kits..
gH:N/A

tank temp: 75F

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): angels acting normal...cody cats erratic behaviour every once and a while.

Volume and Frequency of water changes: about 25% change every week.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: cycle, aqua plus

Tank inhabitants: 6 small angels about dime size and 1 large angel, 2 cody cats, 2 clown loach 3 oto cat and 3 black neon tetras. ( i know too much for 15g...I have a 55g that they will be moving into soon)

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): Isolated the 2 clown loach and 2 tetras in the hospital tank after noticing white spots on them. the other fish don't have anything as of yet.


I have a live plant in the aquarium and a terra cotta pot (using as a cave)...I have increased the temp of the heater as well. it was at 24 to 26 ( I assume this is in C)

Do you think i should treat the entire tank instead of having isolated the four fish?

How can I lower the the Nitrate? I read somewhere about CO2?

 

[onebto]

okay Sara personally I think you need to treat both the main tank and your isolation tank even if the visable symptoms of ich are not prevlant on all fish.

The 24 to 26 you mentioned is it degress the answer is yes but unfortunatley that is not warm enough it has to be 30 degrees to effect ich but you really should treat with a medication

Ich, or White Spot, is a protozoan parasite that exists free floating in aquarium water. Because loaches have very tiny scales, they seem particularly susceptible to infection from Ich, although it can affect all aquarium fish. The first signs of an infection may be rapid breathing, redness around the gill area, or the appearance of tiny white spots on the skin of the fish that resembles white sugar. Infected loaches may make sudden repeated rubbing motions against rocks or gravel in the tank. Loach keepers call this behaviour "flashing."

“Ich” is the convenient way to refer to the organism Ichthyophthirius (sometimes Ichthyopthirius) multifilis. This parasite has three stages to its life cycle: trophont, tomont, and theront. The white spots on an infected fish are visible during the trophont phase of the cycle. The spots are actually scarring that occurs as the parasite burrows into the outer layer of the fish's skin. Beneath each white spot, the Ich is forming a tiny cyst in which it multiplies by cellular division. At this stage of the infection, the Ich is impervious to medication.

When the cysts mature, they burst and release thousands of the tomont stage cells into the water. The tomonts develop a slimy coat immediately after emerging from the infected fish, which allows each one to adhere to aquarium décor, substrate and even the glass walls of the tank. Once the encapsulation is complete, the organism begins a second stage of reproduction by further cellular division.

Finally, the Ich is released from the capsules in its theront phase. These theronts swim out in search of new host fishes and begin the cycle again. It is only during this free-swimming phase of the life cycle that medication is effective. Theront cells are not visible in the water.

Chemical treatment:

Many different products are available to deal with Ich, but perhaps the most effective products are ones that contain the chemicals formalin and malachite green (sometimes called malachite blue or Victoria green). Both of these chemicals are highly toxic and in some areas, their sale is restricted. They are carcinogenic, so great care must be taken to wash any body part that is directly exposed to the medicine or treated water. Products such as Rid-Ich and Quick Cure are available in most aquarium shops, but if you're not sure which product to buy, consult a knowledgeable clerk.

Because these products are so toxic, I noticed you have Clown loach so, many loach keepers recommend dosing an infected tank at 50% of the level indicated on the packaging. Many of these products recommend dosing at one drop per US gallon, so it may be prudent to dose at one drop per two US gallons.

The speed of transformation between stages of the Ich life cycle is affected by the temperature of the water. The organism goes through all three phases of its cycle more rapidly in warmer conditions, so we recommend that the temperature of a treated tank be gradually increased to around 86 F (30 C). This has to happen gradually to avoid further stress on the fish. Some sources have said that temperatures above 86 degrees Fahrenheit alone will kill off the parasite. However, many fish and aquarium plants cannot tolerate these elevated temperatures long enough to complete a full life cycle of the parasite and effectively eradicate it from the aquarium completely.

Your question how do you reduce Nitrates? that would be by water changes decent sized ones as well just remember when doing large water changes to ensure you do not drop the tanks tempreture to much by introducing to much cold water, if you are having serious Nitrate problems it would be worth testing the source water as it can be the case the water out of your tap can be high in Nitrates if this be the case come back to the forum for help.

Testing if you are using test strips then you may as well be guessing the levels as they are notouriousley unreliable liquid based test kits like the API master fresh water test kit is good value for money and will give you good results.

I hope this helps and keep us apprised of how it goes.

Regards onebto.

 

[sara213]

Okay then should I leave them in the hospital tank or return them to the community tank?

I have something that is called Ick guard. the ingredient is victoria green and nitromersol (happen to pick it up just in case something were to happen suddenly).

stuff like plants and ornaments are left in the tank while treating right? that was good information. thanks by the way.


as for the tests I bought the API master kit for 19.99 which is like 30 bucks (in canada anyhow) regular price(on boxing day).

I believe it is the water from the tap..I tested it and it does have high nitrates. I got the same reading 40 ppm....

 

[anon02]

40ppm for nitrate is not regarded as particularly high, the usual guideline is 20ppm above tapwater level. For the API nitrate test pay particular attention to the shakings and timings especially bottle #2 as the ingredients are prone to separating out

 

[sara213]

when ever I watched the tank the loach's didn't exhibit any kind of flashing behaviour. they swam around the tank normally..However the cody cats did something odd like turning on their sides on the surface of the gravel. It wasn't very often.

 

[onebto]

Okay then should I leave them in the hospital tank or return them to the community tank?

I have something that is called Ick guard. the ingredient is victoria green and nitromersol (happen to pick it up just in case something were to happen suddenly).

stuff like plants and ornaments are left in the tank while treating right? that was good information. thanks by the way.


as for the tests I bought the API master kit for 19.99 which is like 30 bucks (in canada anyhow) regular price(on boxing day).

I believe it is the water from the tap..I tested it and it does have high nitrates. I got the same reading 40 ppm....

As to what tanks to treat and were I would ask were are the loaches? as these are better off getting half does treatments due to there sensativity to medication, I would now consider both tanks possibly contaminated so would recommend you put the loach in your hospital tank on there own get that up to 30 degrees then use your meds at half dose and then dose your main tank at the normal recomended level one is concious of reducing stress to the fish by endlessley moving them and also the work load but I have always worked on worst case senariose this is of course my humble advise and opinion I am by no means an expert and someone else may come up with a better idea, lets hope they post.

Real plants will not enjoy the 30 degrees I have next to no knowledge of plants so I would pop over to the planted section and ask them, As for ornaments get them out give them a good clean in clean water then let them completely dry them out infact untill you have removed the ich from your tanks its really pointless putting them back into a contaminated tank the only exception I would make is the Clown loach will need a cave or two to hide in as this is there normal requirement plus being medicated up they could get a little stressed so a cave would help them.

Test kits

nice one.

Clown loach are not Flicking/flashing that is odd if they have ICH I have never heard of case were a loach with ICH has not flicked but then again I guess its not within the realms of imposabillity before medicating you need to observe a little more to make sure they do have ICH are there many white spots on them?.

Water this is the case with some and not experiancing this myself I cannot advise you well on this matter other than to say do not let it rise above 40ppm hopefully someone in your shoes will offer you some good advise.

Finally if you get hold of someone by the name of waterdrop on this forum then you will be in good company he has been on the forum for quite a while and sort of specializes in helping people out with sick and ill fish so if you can get him on side to help you then all the better of course there are many others on here that can give you alot more help than I

Good luck onebto

 

[sara213]

They have about one or two spots on them that is all. I ended up moving back to the community tank because they were quite depressed when i put them there after. I didn't feel to take a chance and leave them in there just in case the stop eating the other one did.

but I have news to report that one of my baby angel's died.. (but this is not for sure it is becasue of the ich or eatting too much there was no white spots on it but I can't say for sure why...)

I raised the temperature to 82F(slowly) but that is it i'm going to go. too bad there isn't a test that can tell you if you have ICH for sure. (unless there is one out there)

I already put some medication in but only 1/2 dosage. Yeah from what I have seen the Loach's are acting normal, digging in the gravel every once in a while, swimming around and hiding and the other one tries to steal stuff from the other loach...I think that is normal too. I have yet to see flashing..and trying to dig into the the bas of the amazon sword plant with much effort mind (the plant is in a pot)

thanks onebto. you are helping though...

 

[onebto]

Half dosage is wise. 82F is close enough its actually 27.8C If I recall correctly the heat does not actually kill the Ich it just speeds the cycle of ICH but if I am incorrect on this matter I am sure someone will correct me.

Clowns get very lonely especially when there are only 2 of them if I recall correctly your numbers? I was going to mention this later when you have got your Ich sorted but now is as good a time as any.

Clown loach like the majority of other loaches are a VERY social species they need to be in a group of there own the majority I think most agree that 4 or 5 is the absolute minimum number you should have and the more the merrier and as the numbers rise the more of the playful character of your Clown loaches will come out.

Of course this bares consequences in that you need the correct sized tank, the longer the better. Many people including myself have kept Clowns in 4 or 5 foot (200 to 400 litre) tanks which is okay when they are juveniles but Clowns grow from the average 1 inch which you will find in your LFS to 3 or 4 inches within a year if kept and fed correctly, at about the 4 inch point you will start to notice they start to bulk out also at this point there growth slows down considerably. As they move into adolescence you really need to be thinking of a 6ft long by 2ft deep and high tank for a respectable sized family of clown loach this link to youtube shows a video of a perfect tank and group (not mine) http/www.youtube.c...h?v=p1Opg1xLZQU

Of course for most crazy Clown loach keepers a 6X2X2 is not the limit and we will go to great lengths to keep our loaches happy for example I have an 8X3X2 tank in my uncles garage waiting till I bye some were big enough to put it in

Clowns can and will with the correct environment and keeping live for 15 to 20 years plus and can get up to 12 inches in length and as mentioned they also get quite bulky especially the females.

Loaches like all other species have there own special set of requirements water conditions, tank requirements and dietry requirements just to mention a few if you have any questions please ask.

Regards onebto.

 

[sara213]

Half dosage is wise. 82F is close enough its actually 27.8C If I recall correctly the heat does not actually kill the Ich it just speeds the cycle of ICH but if I am incorrect on this matter I am sure someone will correct me.

Clowns get very lonely especially when there are only 2 of them if I recall correctly your numbers? I was going to mention this later when you have got your Ich sorted but now is as good a time as any.

Clown loach like the majority of other loaches are a VERY social species they need to be in a group of there own the majority I think most agree that 4 or 5 is the absolute minimum number you should have and the more the merrier and as the numbers rise the more of the playful character of your Clown loaches will come out.

Of course this bares consequences in that you need the correct sized tank, the longer the better. Many people including myself have kept Clowns in 4 or 5 foot (200 to 400 litre) tanks which is okay when they are juveniles but Clowns grow from the average 1 inch which you will find in your LFS to 3 or 4 inches within a year if kept and fed correctly, at about the 4 inch point you will start to notice they start to bulk out also at this point there growth slows down considerably. As they move into adolescence you really need to be thinking of a 6ft long by 2ft deep and high tank for a respectable sized family of clown loach this link to youtube shows a video of a perfect tank and group (not mine) http/www.youtube.c...h?v=p1Opg1xLZQU

Of course for most crazy Clown loach keepers a 6X2X2 is not the limit and we will go to great lengths to keep our loaches happy for example I have an 8X3X2 tank in my uncles garage waiting till I bye some were big enough to put it in

Clowns can and will with the correct environment and keeping live for 15 to 20 years plus and can get up to 12 inches in length and as mentioned they also get quite bulky especially the females.

Loaches like all other species have there own special set of requirements water conditions, tank requirements and dietry requirements just to mention a few if you have any questions please ask.

Regards onebto.

I would like to add more if i weren't so scared they were going to die on me maybe i could buy one at a time....and add them.

the spots have gone, but I haven't added more medication (as I don't like to add chemicals...) so I'm going to leave it as is...and just perform water changes every other day.