Hi

[phoenix2081]

Hi my name is Michael and I have just recently got into fish and setting up an aquarium. I bought a 60 liter tank with filter and heater ready to set up for fresh water tropical fish. I rinsed all ornaments and gravel before placing in the tank and adding water which was treated with aqua plus by nutrafin. After 48 hours I popped to my local aquarium dealer who gave me 6 cardinal tetras and 5 variety of plants which he stated was fine for beginners (I don't know the names of the plants, sorry).

Everything was going fine and after another 48 hrs I got the beginner itch and added a clam, which is doing fine and from research would not of affected the start up of the fish and the bacteria and nitrogen cycle. Now at the 5 day mark 2 cardinals have died. I immediately took a sample of water to the store who tested it and told me it was all clear and should be fine for the small quantity of fish as he stated when he first tested. However he did state he would expect to lose a fish or 2 when starting up a tank. But 2 fish in 12 hours has paniced me. The 4 cardinals that are left seem fine ........... but so did the other 2 before hiding themselves for death.

I have added a small dose of ammonia safe just to stop an ammonia spike and it has a stress calmer which I have been told is good for fish.

I feed them Nutrafin Max tropical fish flakes (no more than 3 flakes a day in one sitting) and I see them eat it, usually as it floats towards the bottom they swarm all over them.

The tank is 24-25 degrees celsius.

I forgot to state when the first cardinal died all 6 were clear with no or little colour. The 5 remaining then were fine and swimming about happy as larry and when the next one died it still had full colour which was unusual. I removed each fish , I believe within 30 minutes of death as I have a tendancy of sitting staring at my tank and randomly counting them.

Any help or advice is appreciated and I just wanted opinions of another person if this is normal for a few fish to die as I do not like them dieing!

Michael

 

[Jay1983]

WOW

First welcome to the forum. Before adding fish you need to 'cycle' your filter so that it is ready to process your fishes waste and any other waste that is in the tank. Because you already have fish in the tank you are in a 'fish in cycle' please read about it here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/ also read through that whole section so much info that will help you. You need to start doing water changes (i assume they told you about doing this??) you will need to be changing a minimum of 50% everyday.

Cardinal tetras are very delicate and need excellent water quality. They are not ideal as first fish in fully cycled tanks let alone tanks that are not. You lfs should know this! You need to buy a test kit asap. most on here use the API master test kit.

Don't think this is me having ago at you, we all make mistakes and being new to fish lots make the same mistake it is your LFS who have given you really bad advice. As said visit the beginners resource section http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/ is there anyway you can return the fish or anyone that can take them off you?

Do you know anyone else who is into fish keeping they maybe able to give you some of there filter media which would help no end!!

Jay

 

[fluttermoth]

Jay's given you some good advice there, I'd just like to add that you should return the clam as well; they cannot survive in aquaria, I'm afraid, and when it dies it will pollute your water very quickly.

As your filter isn't cycled, it will lead to a fatal (for your fish) level of ammonia.

 

[Jay1983]

Jay's given you some good advice there, I'd just like to add that you should return the clam as well; they cannot survive in aquaria, I'm afraid, and when it dies it will pollute your water very quickly.

As your filter isn't cycled, it will lead to a fatal (for your fish) level of ammonia.

+ 1 totally missed that

Jay

 

[phoenix2081]

hmm, I am sure the shop will take them back if needs be. They ran tests for nitrate and ammonia this morning and said all was good. The clam is not for salt water, it is a fresh water clam. Will it really die?

What would you advise to do to get the tank running swimmingly as the shop had advised the tetra's. If I have made mistakes it is totally down to advice given from my shop, I am not passing the buck but I was in there for a long time talking about how to set up and I am literally following instructions (bar the clam).

I will read through the link, thankyou very much and cheers for advice.

edit* The shop told me to do 10-20% every two weeks which after reading is something I should do once the cycle is established. Hope the fish pull through the night and then I can square it away.

 

[Jay1983]

hmm, I am sure the shop will take them back if needs be. They ran tests for nitrate and ammonia this morning and said all was good. The clam is not for salt water, it is a fresh water clam. Will it really die?

What would you advise to do to get the tank running swimmingly as the shop had advised the tetra's. If I have made mistakes it is totally down to advice given from my shop, I am not passing the buck but I was in there for a long time talking about how to set up and I am literally following instructions (bar the clam).

I will read through the link, thankyou very much and cheers for advice.

edit* The shop told me to do 10-20% every two weeks which after reading is something I should do once the cycle is established. Hope the fish pull through the night and then I can square it away.

Hey dude no I don't believe you have done this intentionally its all down to bad advice. Have you done a water change? if not i'd do 1 this will increase the fishes chances of survival. I would do atleast 50% try to match the temperature as much as you can and also don't forget to use conditioner. Yeah you should do 25% a week as a guide but many things influence this.

If you read the beginners guide it will help alot. Most important thing right now is water changes big and often.

Sorry I don't know anything about clams but I would wonder how it would eat? google them and have a look at there requirements. Like fluttermoth said if it dies it will cause huge ammonia, and an uncycled filter wont cope with it.

Jay

 

[fluttermoth]

The clam is not for salt water, it is a fresh water clam. Will it really die?

Yes, I'm afraid it will; they are filter feeders and need a massive flow-through of water and food that you can only get in rivers; even in ponds they die.

What would you advise to do to get the tank running swimmingly

Buy yourself a good, liquid reagent based test kit; preferably for ammonia, nitrite and nirate, but ammonia and nitrite are the important ones right now. Test every day, and if you get any reading at all for either of those two, do a massive (75 or 80%) water change immediatly.

Have a read through of the 'fish in cycling' thread in the beginner's resource centre; that'll tell you everything you need to know

 

[phoenix2081]

Thanks for all the help guys. Just spent a good 1 -2 hours reading through those links. Needless to say I wish I had found this forum before delving in with the instructions of the LFS. Buying a test kit tomorrow and will monitor the levels and water change if and when required to save the poor little things.

Wish I had of understood the Nitrogen cycle before starting as I definately would of fishless cycled. Seems to be more efficient and have less risk.

The clam I researched and I found a site that stated that you can give them the algae flakes or crushed fish food near them and they will filter that and they shouldnt die. I am using a pebble bottom not subtrate so I can monitor 3 times a day or more (similar to the conditions of the site I will link). I am in two minds with the clam as I really don't want to give him up but if it is more hassle than it is worth I will have to find it a new home or give it to the store.

Link to clam site - http/raccoons0.tripod.com/raccoons/id9.html

Thanks for the help and I will update you on the, hopefully, progress of the tank in the close future.

Also is this type of test kit good - http/www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwater-Master-Test-Kit/dp/B004VU8G56/ref=pd_cp_petsupplies_2

Michael

 

[Jay1983]

Thanks for all the help guys. Just spent a good 1 -2 hours reading through those links. Needless to say I wish I had found this forum before delving in with the instructions of the LFS. Buying a test kit tomorrow and will monitor the levels and water change if and when required to save the poor little things.

Wish I had of understood the Nitrogen cycle before starting as I definately would of fishless cycled. Seems to be more efficient and have less risk.

The clam I researched and I found a site that stated that you can give them the algae flakes or crushed fish food near them and they will filter that and they shouldnt die. I am using a pebble bottom not subtrate so I can monitor 3 times a day or more (similar to the conditions of the site I will link). I am in two minds with the clam as I really don't want to give him up but if it is more hassle than it is worth I will have to find it a new home or give it to the store.

Link to clam site - http/raccoons0.tripod.com/raccoons/id9.html

Thanks for the help and I will update you on the, hopefully, progress of the tank in the close future.

Also is this type of test kit good - http/www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwater-Master-Test-Kit/dp/B004VU8G56/ref=pd_cp_petsupplies_2

Michael

Yes mate that is the test kit. The clam is your call I know nothing about them at all. Well you are waiting for your test kit to arrive do atleast 1 50% + water change a day. This is a great site for information.

Don't beat yourself up about it either it's not your fault. Hopefully having those plants should help a bit.

Jay

 

[XeroTolerance]

to the forums!

 

[phoenix2081]

Water changing tomorrow. Getting the water treatments in morning and will do it in the evening once the water is room temp and has had the time for the treatments to work. Stupid question now. Is the best way to do the water change using the gravel cleaning pump? should I put some of the ammonia safe into the water I am adding too?

Sorry to be such a pain just after the info I have had I do not trust anything I have previously been told.

 

[XeroTolerance]

Water changing tomorrow. Getting the water treatments in morning and will do it in the evening once the water is room temp and has had the time for the treatments to work. Stupid question now. Is the best way to do the water change using the gravel cleaning pump? should I put some of the ammonia safe into the water I am adding too?

Sorry to be such a pain just after the info I have had I do not trust anything I have previously been told.

Yep, use a gravel pump. It makes it a lot easier. You may want to add some ammonia safe but if you don't have any ammonia readings then you don't really have to.

 

[phoenix2081]

Thanks. How thorough should this be?

 

[XeroTolerance]

Thanks. How thorough should this be?

Once a month do a "deep" clean when you push the pump all the way into the gravel. Normally though you would just push it into the gravel halfway to get it out. You don't want to disturb the bacteria too much!

 

[phoenix2081]

So I have just changed about 50% of the water in my tank, I would of done more but my estimates on the size of my bucket were a little over exaggerated. Since the water change the 4 fish are out and active rather than floating at the bottom of the tank. How much should I water change daily now? About 25%?

Waiting on my API master kit so I can actually put my figures up.

Thankyou All for the advice and help and putting up with beginner questions I am sure you have heard a million times before.