Hi :) Beginner In The Hobby Here

[DeanoL83]

Hi guys,
 
My name's Dean, I'm 31 from Australia.  I was given a second hand tank by my in-laws recently and have just spent the last few weeks setting it up and getting it going.  I'm new to all of this but have been doing a lot of reading and think it's going well so far.  
 
I have a 4 foot tank (200L), and bought the appropriate air pump/filter, heater and lighting.  I have live plants, driftwood, rocks, and a pipe ornament thing for the fish to swim through and hide.  
 
I want a community tank full of fish that are relatively peaceful and easy to take care of.  I have sat in front of the tank for probably 2 hours today just watching all the fish - I find it so peaceful, tranquil and relaxing.   
 
The only thing I am unsure of is if I have overcrowded my tank.  
 
My fish so far:
 
5 serpae tetras
10 neon tetras
6 rummynose tetras
6 guppies - all male
6 red platys - all female
5 mollies - 1 male, 4 female 
1 sucker
1 red tail shark
1 clown loach (I know this will grow big and likes to be with other clown loaches, but this was just to get rid of small black snails that came with my live plants - I didn't know to wash the plants at the time). 
 
There still looks to be heaps of space in the tank as many of the fish are small (namely the neons and rummynose).  Is it already overcrowded?  Is there room for any more schooling fish of similar size?
 
Thanks for all your help and I look forward to reading more and learning more
 
Dean

 

[stanleo]

Hi Dean, welcome to TFF! There is loads to read and learn here. 
 
I don't think you are too stocked but I do see some compatibility issues if I may. Your red tail shark could very quickly become a bully to the tetras. They should be with fish of similar size and temperament.
 
The clown loach will outgrow  and does need schools. I am not sure if they are available in Australia but have a look at assassin snails. They eat snails and will do a great job of ridding your tank of them. They are slow to reproduce and look good too.
 
Your mollies will start having babies. If enough of them survive they will quickly overstock your tank. Plus, livebearers prefer hard water and tetras prefer soft water. You can mix them I think but i'm not too sure on that. You might look into that. 
 
Plus we love to look at pictures!!!

 

[noobgamers]

ok agree totaly with stanleo but personally hardness isnt the biggest factor all your fish will live together fine in a reasonable hardness(not ridiculously high)it will amke them be slightly better in terms of color and ease to breed but thats all ive kept neons angels plecos and corydoras all fish that will do very well in o hardness tanks in tanks with hardness high enough to keep any african cichlids (fisht that need the hardess water of any fish). mollys will breed but iwll also not live too long they do need salt in their tanks to do very well. the clown loach will outgrow good substitutes for clowns yo yo loaches could easily fit 12 in there happily. what do you mean by sucker allo tof species are called that and some will get very big or aggresive or arent very good at eating algae and also some suckers eat some types of algae that others may not even see as food. red tailed sharks they are peacfull until they get about 12cm then their PERSONALITY shows through this dosent mean they will be aggressive allot of them are but some will be extremely peacful btw they will eat small amounts of algae. you could easiyl up the guppys, platys, rummynose tetra and serpaes to 12 this would make them happier and would make the tank look fuller. oh and coudl you please tell us what species your sucker is or if not send us a pic some of the people on this forum could tell you what fish it is by saying how big it gets pretty well

 

[DeanoL83]

Thanks for the replies!
 
Glad to hear it's not overstocked cause I would like to put a few more in there myself. I love watching them all. 
 
I am not sure what type of sucker it is - the guy at the LFS just called it a sucker lol, but I will take a photo when I get home this afternoon and post it here,  I will also take a photo of the aquarium for everyone to look at then. 
 
The water is slightly hard here.  I don't have a liquid water tester (only those strip testers) so don't know exactly.  My ph is a bit high too so have added some ph down but that doesn't seem to do a lot.  Once the strips run out I think I will get a liquid tester as they seem a lot more accurate. 
 
Thanks for all your help,
Dean

 

[vrob]

Hi Dean. Welcome to TFF!

 

[Ninjouzata]

to the forum, Dean! Hope you enjoy yourself here.
 
As has been said a picture of the 'sucker' would be good so we can ID it for you and see if it will work with the tank.
 
I would stop messing with the pH down and all of that, it just causes your pH to constantly fluctuate which is not good for the fish.
Most fish can adapt to pH fairly well and if you bought them locally are likely already used to it.
 
I would get a liquid test kit as strips can be inaccurate. Did you cycle the tank before adding your fish by the way? If you don't know what cycling is have a read HERE.
 
I would (I know I keep saying that!) also re-home (return to LFS or post it on a second-hand site) the clown loach since it does need buddies and grows too big for the tank. You can get rid of snails by other means.
 
One of these would be assassin snails like has been mentioned but I think they're not available there.
You can also put in things like lettuce at night and in the morning it should be covered in snails..you can take it out and throw it away.

 

[DeanoL83]

Hi guys,
 
Thanks for all the advice and feedback - I appreciate it.
 
I've attached a couple of pics of my sucker, and also of my tank in general for everyone to look at.
 
I have no idea what type of sucker it is so if anyone can identify it that would be fantastic

 
I will get a background display of some sort (not sure whether to go a picture or just a plain colour - is any particularly better for the fish?).  I'm happy for any other feedback about how the tank looks and if I need more plants/light/hiding spots etc.
 
I wish I had found this site before I purchased the loach - will have to think about what I can do for him.  Unfortunately, I live in a small rural town of population 3500 - there are only 2 pet shops within 2.5 hours drive.  I know for sure that one of them won't take fish back
 
I also did not know to cycle the tank before I put the fish in so no, the fish went in one day after the water and plants did.  I tested the water and put a bit of Seachem prime and ph down in before adding the fish but that's all I did.  That was 2 weeks ago.  I have done a 25% water change since then.
 
Only had one guppy die - and he was sick right from the start.  The others all are extremely active and look healthy.  
 
Thanks to everyone for their help!

 

[Ninjouzata]

Your fish don't need a specific background, no. Usually a plain black background is a good choice as it makes plant and fish colors stand out. Go with what you like though
 
What have your readings been for ammonia & nitrite?
 
That looks to be a chinese algae eater, unfortunately. It will eventually outgrow your tank as they grow they usually stop eating algae and start attacking other fish and sucking their slime coat. I would re-home him too
 
I would call the pet stores near you and ask before bringing the fish in, that way you don't waste a trip.
If/when you do this keep in mind the red tail black shark can also be aggressive (especially once they get older like said above) so you might want to take it back too. Sorry for being negative
 
As for other fish I would up the numbers of the tetras (mainly the rummies & serpae).

 

[Ch4rlie]

 
Nice looking tank
 
You have been given lots of good advice e so far.
 
I have to agree clown loaches do do best in groups of 6+ and do grow pretty big, at least a foot tong but does take a while to reach full size.
Even though you already knew this anyway, always nice to let anyone reading this learn about these too
 
http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/chromobotia-macracanthus/
 
 
Also do think that is a Chinese Algae Eater from your pictures, they do have a bit of a reputation as they grow older, becomes aggressive and may latch onto other fish, especially flat sided fish such as discus, best re-home this guy just in case, or at very least tank mates to be chosen very carefully.
 
http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/gyrinocheilus-aymonieri/
 
Using products such as pH down is not worth the money time or effort in doing. As long as your tank is stable and pH remains steady, there is no reason why you cannot have certain species, a lot of species can adapt to slightly different levels of pH but not fluctuating.
 
Water softness / hardness is another thing entirely and is worth finding out what you tap water is like, you can get gH / kH test kits, or ask your LFS to test some tap water sample or even search online or call you water company for information on your water.
 
And lastly, sounds like you will be doing a Fish In Cyce, which i don't like but if you have to, follow these articles 
 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/433769-rescuing-a-fish-in-cycle-gone-wild-part-i/
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/433778-rescuing-a-fish-in-cycle-gone-wild-part-il/
 
Or you could follow this article, but only if you re-home all the fish in your tank and you may not want to do this, but I prefer this method
 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
 
Sorry for a long post, and not all that positive   but hopefully it all makes sense why these things are being suggested.

 

[squidneh]

Welcome 

  Congratulations on the new tank.
 
Was just reading through and would like to add in something about the algae eater.  I have one myself and he is about 5 inches long now, he has never caused any problems in the tank.  I didn't learn of his potential to become a real problem in the tank until I had had him for quite a while.  I keep a careful eye on him, but he doesn't bother anyone so far. However now that I am considering bigger fish (that he may be able to suck on later on, if he ever does exhibit that behavior) I do wish I had rehomed him before I grew so attached 

 I am now looking at saving up for another tank when the time comes, because I hate the thought of rehoming him.  He is a great fish but like the others have said, not the best choice for a peaceful community.  What you do with him is your choice though ultimately, of course.

 

[stanleo]

Look up the difference between Chinese algae eaters and Siamese algae eaters. They are very similar but very different in behavior. The Siamese stays smaller and is quite peaceful. The fish in the pic doesn't have a stripe through its tail and I always thought that is how you tell the difference. I think you have the Siamese algae ester. I could be wrong though.

 

[DeanoL83]

Thankyou everyone for all the information and advice....
 
I definitely hope that I have a SAE and not a CAE by the sounds of it lol.
 
I will also have to purchase a proper liquid tester kit which tests the GH and KH.  I do have the strips which apparently test for them too, but I find it so hard to compare the colours accurately lol.
 
Thanks for the advice about the ph down and ph up being a waste of time.  I have a product called 'LeafZone' which is a liquid food for the plants - I have been putting that in once a week as per the instructions on the bottle - is that a waste of time too, or good practice?
 
In terms of food, I normally feed them all 2-3 a day (one fast day in the week).  They are getting a variety of standard tropical fish flakes, spirulina flakes, freeze dried bloodworms, and micro pellets for the tetras etc to eat easily.  Is that a good enough variety?  I have been thinking about getting some frozen foods like worms etc, and some algae wafers for the sucker/loach/shark (still considering re-homing one or two).  Any suggestions on food?
 
Thanks again so much - I am learning a lot!

 

[Ch4rlie]

Look up the difference between Chinese algae eaters and Siamese algae eaters. They are very similar but very different in behavior. The Siamese stays smaller and is quite peaceful. The fish in the pic doesn't have a stripe through its tail and I always thought that is how you tell the difference. I think you have the Siamese algae ester. I could be wrong though.

 
It IS quite tricky to tell exactly isn't it. 
 
To be honest I still think its a CAE
 
http/badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile47.html
 
In SAE the stripe runs the entire length of body as well as coloration does not seem to be yellow / orange either, and from that link for CAE, its looks very close to the 3rd pic in link as well as having a kind of stripe about halfway across body rather than entire length.
 
I don't know of a sure fire way of identifying these, am hoping op may post a closer pic of this sucking loach and someone can identify for certain which it is, my money's on CAE though

 
 

I have a product called 'LeafZone' which is a liquid food for the plants - I have been putting that in once a week as per the instructions on the bottle - is that a waste of time too, or good practice?
 
In terms of food, I normally feed them all 2-3 a day (one fast day in the week).  They are getting a variety of standard tropical fish flakes, spirulina flakes, freeze dried bloodworms, and micro pellets for the tetras etc to eat easily.  Is that a good enough variety?  I have been thinking about getting some frozen foods like worms etc, and some algae wafers for the sucker/loach/shark (still considering re-homing one or two).  Any suggestions on food?

 
Have never tried "Leafzone" personally but sounds like a fertiliser that may be ok, although is a API brand.
Personally I prefer Seachem fertilising products to API. But should be ok, it may not do much but if it provides nutrients for plants then thats ok but i do not know what nutrients that Leafzone product provides.
 
As for feeding fish, I feed my fish once a day, a pinch is all i give, usually use Hikari pellets, Algae Wafers and occasionally as a treat mini bloodworms, daphnia, cyclops and brine shrimp as well as peas. I also fast the tank twice a week, encourages the endlers, shrimps and snails to forage

 

[DeanoL83]

Yes, I read that Seachem is better than API generally.  I have Seachem Prime that I use everytime I do a water change.  unfortunately, I purchased the LeafZone before doing much reading.  It contains iron and potassium apparently.
 
I have attached an upclose photo of my sucker - he was kindly sitting very calmly for me this morning

 
I also have attached a photo of my two snails.  I think they are apple snails - can anyone confirm this???  Also, was just wanting some ideas on their behaviour - one often climbs on the shell of the other and goes for a ride - are they fighting or mating?  The photo is of them doing this behaviour.
 
Thanks again

 

[Ninjouzata]

I'm with Ch4rlie that it is a CAE.
 
For a comparison HERE is a link on CAE and HERE is a link on SAE.
For those who don't want to open the links and look I'll just put a pic of each here.
 
I'll put a picture of a marbled CAE 'cause I think that is what yours is, at least from this pic.

 
And here is an SAE

 
Yes those are likely mystery snails which are in the apple snail family. They could be mating, I think if they fight they usually try and yank the other out of it's shell.
 
You don't need to feed 2-3 times a day, you can just feed once Fasting one day a week is also good like you've been doing.
I'd definitely get some frozen food too, variety is good as you seem to already know. I like new life spectrum, hikari, and omega one for brands, if that helps any.