Help!

[GouramiMommy]

My gourami has been very bloated lately, and not eating. i thought it was Internal Parasites.... but now his scales are slightly raised... and the only thing it points to is dropsy!! the tank has been cycled, ammonia is 0 nitrites are 0 nitrates are very minimal. The tank has been set up for almost a year now. i have 4 live plants and a pleco. i have not added any new fish lately. i do have a lot of snails. i do weekly water changes. Is there a cure that doesnt involve a vet? Will i ever be able to use my tank again?

 

[Rummynose]

I have read you could try epsom salt. It is meant to pull out the liquid from the fish. It is not often successful though, and the kinder thing to do is to euthanize the fish.

 

[afremont]

My gourami has been very bloated lately, and not eating. i thought it was Internal Parasites.... but now his scales are slightly raised... and the only thing it points to is dropsy!! the tank has been cycled, ammonia is 0 nitrites are 0 nitrates are very minimal. The tank has been set up for almost a year now. i have 4 live plants and a pleco. i have not added any new fish lately. i do have a lot of snails. i do weekly water changes. Is there a cure that doesnt involve a vet? Will i ever be able to use my tank again?

Do you have a picture? Is it centered underneath or is it on one side? Does the fish eat and if so what does its poop look like? Dropsy is a symptom, not a disease and your description does indeed fit that name since the scales are turning up. Now, what is causing it is another matter. Do you have any salt in the water? If the swelling is from fluid/water build up in the abdomen then salt might help the fish reestablish its osmotic balance.

 

[GouramiMommy]

I have read you could try epsom salt. It is meant to pull out the liquid from the fish. It is not often successful though, and the kinder thing to do is to euthanize the fish.

i dont know how to euthanize anything 0w0

 

[GouramiMommy]

PLEASE!! is there any treatment?

 

[afremont]

PLEASE!! is there any treatment?

You didn't respond to my questions in this thread. Can you provide a picture of the fish or at least one on the internet that resembles the swelling? I saw your first thread, why do you think the gourami doesn't have an air (swim) bladder, they most certainly do. Do you have other fish in the tank? Do you have a hospital tank?

If it's bloating from fluid buildup, then aquarium salt could help the fish get back into balance with its osmoregulation. Be sure that the fish isn't just constipated. Does it eat? How does the poop look?

 

[Rummynose]

I never had to deal with dropsy in my tanks and have no personal experience. I`ve found this site

http/nippyfish.net/sick-betta/dropsy/

have a read and see if that sounds like what you`re dealing with. Maybe your fish is only constipated like afremont suggested. Feeding the fish a deshelled, mushed up pea may help with that.

Your fish could also have internal parasites! To diagnose you will have to look at pictures and compare them with your fish, or post a picture on here. There are lots of experienced people here who could help you with that.

As to euthanasia, there are a few ways to choose from. The most humane way for sensitive people is to use clove oil which you can purchase in a natural food store. Basically you put your fish in a bucket with some water and add a few drops at a time. This will anaesthesize your fish. You will have to add some more drops to make sure that your fish is euthanized. I`m sure there is someone here who can give you a step by step, or you could also do a search online.

 

[the_lock_man]

PLEASE!! is there any treatment?

If it is dropsy, then basically no, there is no treatment. I believe Afremont is wrong in saying that aquarium salt will help - if that were the case, then every single marine fish would have no fluid in its body at all. It is Epsom Salts, as previously mentioned, that might help. But the chances are that it won't. The reason the fish is swelling is that it cannot control its body fluids, due to the failure of its internal organs. As with humans who suffer organ failure, it is a very serious situation, and 99 times out of 100, it is fatal.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

PLEASE!! is there any treatment?

I believe Afremont is wrong in saying that aquarium salt will help - if that were the case, then every single marine fish would have no fluid in its body at all.

Saltwater fish have a different mechanism to handling the water conditions than freshwater fish. Freshwater fish absorb salts and excrete water because their blood has a higher concentration of salts than their surroundings. Saltwater fish take in water and excrete salts because their blood is lower in salts than their surroundings. So your statement is wrong.

Edited because I realised I'd got my explanation back to front!

 

[afremont]

PLEASE!! is there any treatment?

If it is dropsy, then basically no, there is no treatment. I believe Afremont is wrong in saying that aquarium salt will help - if that were the case, then every single marine fish would have no fluid in its body at all. It is Epsom Salts, as previously mentioned, that might help. But the chances are that it won't. The reason the fish is swelling is that it cannot control its body fluids, due to the failure of its internal organs. As with humans who suffer organ failure, it is a very serious situation, and 99 times out of 100, it is fatal.

I'm sorry, I thought I said it "might" help. As for your claims that NaCl won't affect osmoregulation, I'd like to see a real reference to back up your claim since so many books and other published sources seem to be in error. Epsom Salt acts as a laxative as well. Either salt will slow the absorption of water thru the skin.

BTW, dropsy is a symptom, not proof of organ failure. There are other things that can cause the swelling.

 

[afremont]

PLEASE!! is there any treatment?

I believe Afremont is wrong in saying that aquarium salt will help - if that were the case, then every single marine fish would have no fluid in its body at all.

Saltwater fish have a different mechanism to handling the water conditions than freshwater fish. Freshwater fish absorb water and excrete salts because their blood has a higher concentration of salts than their surroundings. Saltwater fish excrete water and absorb salts because their blood is lower in salts than their surroundings. So your statement is wrong.

Thank you, I appreciate it. Adding salt to the water can reduce the workload on the kidneys of freshwater fish as well as slow the absorption thru the skin. At least that's what I've read. It won't "cure" anything, but it might make the fish's immune system better able to fight off an infection if that is the problem since it won't be expending so much energy on osmoregulation. Just how much energy a fish spends on osmoregulation is certainly open to debate since I have seen figures from approx 20% thru as much as 90%. At any rate, it stands to reason that reducing the effort spent bilge pumping fresh water out of the body has to allow more energy for the immune system to do its job.

EDIT: Here is a chart that shows the difference between SW and FW fish. It might be interesting to folks to know that FW fish don't drink the tank water, they don't need to. SW fish drink allot of sea water.
http/www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&biw=1134&bih=567&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsb&tbnid=3Zx_BCGCU33RZM:&imgrefurl=http/chapterfortyfour.webnode.com/whats-osmoregulation/&docid=zDRTvbfkgVioNM&imgurl=http/files.chapterfortyfour.webnode.com/200000002-614a66244d/6541-004-A9497BC0.gif&w=560&h=290&ei=ZpZHT_-uJNSisQKHrszqCA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=102&vpy=215&dur=2192&hovh=161&hovw=312&tx=157&ty=84&sig=101031959039013236276&page=1&tbnh=122&tbnw=236&start=0&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0

 

[the_lock_man]

PLEASE!! is there any treatment?

I believe Afremont is wrong in saying that aquarium salt will help - if that were the case, then every single marine fish would have no fluid in its body at all.

Saltwater fish have a different mechanism to handling the water conditions than freshwater fish. Freshwater fish absorb salts and excrete water because their blood has a higher concentration of salts than their surroundings. Saltwater fish take in water and excrete salts because their blood is lower in salts than their surroundings. So your statement is wrong.

Edited because I realised I'd got my explanation back to front!

Fair do's on the side issue. Perhaps I would have been better saying that Epsom Salts is more effective than aquarium salt, AIUI. Feel free to shoot me down again if necessary.

Main point, though, is that the chances are that these discussions are irrelevant, because the chances are that a fish with dropsy will not survive.

 

[afremont]

Fair do's on the side issue. Perhaps I would have been better saying that Epsom Salts is more effective than aquarium salt, AIUI. Feel free to shoot me down again if necessary.

Main point, though, is that the chances are that these discussions are irrelevant, because the chances are that a fish with dropsy will not survive.

Two things:
1) I don't "know" that Epsom Salts is more effective at effecting osmoregulation. I do know that it will make the fish poop allot and that may be good, or it may not depending upon the situation.

2) Saying a fish that has dropsy is incurable is a self fulfilling prophecy when combined with suggestion to go ahead and euthanize now. Of course the fish won't survive if we don't treat it, but decide to kill it instead.

EDIT: I just did a quick search on cured dropsy and I can't believe the amount of misinformation right at the top of the page. No wonder people think what they do about dropsy with the ridiculous assumptions being tossed around about the cause and how contagious it is. It's a symptom, symptoms are not diseases. Please spread the word.

It's certainly fair to think that prognosis is not good, because it's not. When infections, parasites, fluid buildup or tumors cause dropsy, by the time the scales are turned out the fish is in pretty bad shape, but it isn't dead yet.

Hate me if you like, but I refuse to murder fish when I don't absolutely know what is wrong. I treat til the end.

 

[the_lock_man]

1) I don't "know" that Epsom Salts is more effective at effecting osmoregulation. I do know that it will make the fish poop allot and that may be good, or it may not depending upon the situation.

OK

2) Saying a fish that has dropsy is incurable is a self fulfilling prophecy when combined with suggestion to go ahead and euthanize now. Of course the fish won't survive if we don't treat it, but decide to kill it instead.

Can't fault your logic. However, as you yourself said, dropsy is a symptom of a number of underlying causes. Identifying the correct cause is difficult, treating for the wrong illness would make matters worse, and even if you treated for the correct illness, the fact that the internal organs have failed means that the prognosis is very very bad. In which case, perhaps, euthanising might be more humane?


EDIT: Hadn't seen your edit when I posted. In my own experience, when I have had fish with dropsy, I treated for a few days, saw no improvement and therefore euthanised. I felt it kinder to end its suffering than to go on trying in what was probably a vain hope. We all make up our own minds as to the best course of action. No hate required.

 

[afremont]

1) I don't "know" that Epsom Salts is more effective at effecting osmoregulation. I do know that it will make the fish poop allot and that may be good, or it may not depending upon the situation.

OK

2) Saying a fish that has dropsy is incurable is a self fulfilling prophecy when combined with suggestion to go ahead and euthanize now. Of course the fish won't survive if we don't treat it, but decide to kill it instead.

Can't fault your logic. However, as you yourself said, dropsy is a symptom of a number of underlying causes. Identifying the correct cause is difficult, treating for the wrong illness would make matters worse, and even if you treated for the correct illness, the fact that the internal organs have failed means that the prognosis is very very bad. In which case, perhaps, euthanising might be more humane?

I'm of the opinion that about half of the things that can cause dropsy (not the number of cases) can be treated since parasites and infections are treatable. How much worse can you make a fish that's dying, so why rush the process, nature is fully capable of deciding when it's time for the fish.