Help!

[GRJ]

Ok, i will try and explain this again. I have had my tank (108ltr) set up for 4 weeks. After 1 week i put in five hardy fish (i didnt know about fishless cycling at thispoint), 2 zebra danios and 3 platys. After 2 days, the female platy had fry. Then, after 4 days one of the zebra danios died, then the female platy died and then the other zebra danio died. So, i feared the cycle may stall so i got another 3 platys. The water parameters at this point were ammonia 0.25 - 0.50, nitrite 0.25, nitrate 10 - 20 and ph 7.8 - 8. So i was back up to five fish again, and started doing daily water changes of 25-30%. I got some donored matured filter media and gravel 2 days ago andput them straight in. One of the new platys has also died now( she did have ragged fins when we got her though). The ammonia level is 1.0 and has been for 3 days now, nitrite is reading 0 and nitrate is reading 10. I have tested my tap water for ammonia and its negative. The four remaining fish seem to be happy, they are being fed once a day and when i carry out a water change i vac the gravel. Is this how it should be going or is there something not right. I have used another nitrite test as i had a spare one and that also reads negative. Surely i should have some reading for nitrite now. Advice please!!!!GRJ

 

[rabbut]

Hi there.

The Ammonia is a little high, so keep up the water changes. Yes, by now, with mature media in the tank, you should be seeing nitrite. I would consider reducing the amount you are feeding your fish, to help keep the ammonia down for a while. Do you know how long the donated media had beein in the donor tank at the point you collected it, and how did you transport the media? You should have detectable nitrite by now, at the least, if the media is doing its job.

Also, what type of test kit are you using? Is it a liquid test or test strips?

regards

 

[GRJ]

Hi, i dont know how long the media had been in the tank but i transported it in water from the tank it was donated from. The test kit i am using is the API liquid drop test kit. If the media hasnt worked, is this the reason there is no nitrite showing or should nitrite be showing even if i hadnt had the donated media? Will nitrite show up at all? Thanks GRJ

 

[GRJ]

Ok, just carried out another 25% water change, the second one today, and tested the water again after around 10-15 mins of oing it. Ammonia is still 1.0, nitrite still 0 and nitrate 10. I also vaccumed the gravel and got rid of a lot of crap out of there. Should i be vaccumung gravel every day when i do water changes? I have also cut back on feeding and only feed them once a day now. The fish seem happy enough but i realise the effects of ammonia can show up later. Is it ok to do bigger water changes every day? Will nitrite ever show up. I had some a few days ago, 0.25 or so but now there is nothing. Is the nitrate killing it off before it has chance to kill the ammonia? I dont understand it. I have read and reread the sticky on cycling but this just doesnt seem to be going the way it should. I am at my wits end with it!!! ARRRRGGGHHHHH! GRJ

 

[rabbut]

you should still be seeing nitrite, if ammonia is as high as your test kit says it is. I would increase the volume of water changes to 50%, and try for twice a day. The ammonia is high enough to be caursing problems, so try to get it down to 0.25ppm, with the increased water changes. If you are getting rubbish out of your gravel, when you are gravel vacing each day, you are almost cirtainly overfeeding. As well as decreasing the regularity of feeds, you should reduce the amount of food at each feed. Gravel vacing should only need to be done once a week at most, in a heavily stocked tank.
With the amount of ammonia you have it may be worth skipping feeding all together. Short tearm fasting, for up to a week, should do your particular fish no harm.
It may be worth sourcing some more mature media, for your filter system. Media that is mature will be producing nitrites, which you filter is not doing. Remember to use tap water conditioner with each change, and preferably use one with amono-lock. I suspect that some of the ammonia that you are seeing may be as a result of tap water conditioner without the amono-lock. If no more mature media is available, localy, you may whish to purchase a bactiral kick starting agent. Another member should be able to recomend a suitable product, as I have never used any before.
Nitrate is not anywhere near dangerous levels, and is in fact in the optimum range. Nitrate is only dangerous, when it is off your test kits chart, or above 50ppm over a prolonged period of time. Nitrate should not inhibit the cycle in any way. Hope this helps, any more questions please ask

rabbut

p.s. If you have another tank, you could take some media from there, reducing the risk of the bactiria dieing off in transit. Also try any friends/family/neibours with tanks that are near by. Failing that, look on this forum for people willing to donate. I am baced in Leeds, and have media available for donation. I know its too far for you, but if anyone else is interested.......

 

[GRJ]

you should still be seeing nitrite, if ammonia is as high as your test kit says it is. I would increase the volume of water changes to 50%, and try for twice a day. The ammonia is high enough to be caursing problems, so try to get it down to 0.25ppm, with the increased water changes. If you are getting rubbish out of your gravel, when you are gravel vacing each day, you are almost cirtainly overfeeding. As well as decreasing the regularity of feeds, you should reduce the amount of food at each feed. Gravel vacing should only need to be done once a week at most, in a heavily stocked tank.
With the amount of ammonia you have it may be worth skipping feeding all together. Short tearm fasting, for up to a week, should do your particular fish no harm.
It may be worth sourcing some more mature media, for your filter system. Media that is mature will be producing nitrites, which you filter is not doing. Remember to use tap water conditioner with each change, and preferably use one with amono-lock. I suspect that some of the ammonia that you are seeing may be as a result of tap water conditioner without the amono-lock. If no more mature media is available, localy, you may whish to purchase a bactiral kick starting agent. Another member should be able to recomend a suitable product, as I have never used any before.
Nitrate is not anywhere near dangerous levels, and is in fact in the optimum range. Nitrate is only dangerous, when it is off your test kits chart, or above 50ppm over a prolonged period of time. Nitrate should not inhibit the cycle in any way. Hope this helps, any more questions please ask

rabbut
thanks for that, i will start to do bigger water changes and feed less. I am not near leeds, i live in the midlands and unfortunately i cannot source anymore mature media. Should i use just ammo lock as a dechlorinater or ontop of the dechlorinater, i mean add it to the buckets i put in or directly to the tank? Thanks again.GRJ

p.s. If you have another tank, you could take some media from there, reducing the risk of the bactiria dieing off in transit. Also try any friends/family/neibours with tanks that are near by. Failing that, look on this forum for people willing to donate. I am baced in Leeds, and have media available for donation. I know its too far for you, but if anyone else is interested.......

 

[rabbut]

hi again

I cannot remember if amono-lock is a tap water conditioner, aswell as a chemical to reduce the toxidity of ammonia. If it is a tap water conditioner, use it at water changes. If it is solely and addative, treat the whole tank once, then use at water changes only. The amono-lock bit works, I believe, by turning ammonia into ammonium, which is less toxic. Use amono-lock untill your test kit shows that there is no detectable ammonia in the tank. I would surgest removing any living plants, after the ammonia leavles read by the test kit reach 0.25ppm. This is because plants will use ammonium in preferance to nitrate, and thus potentialy interfere with the cycle. Do not worry about the amono-lock breaking down, as your regularity of waterchanges will be removing the nearly spent amono-lock before it has a chance to break down. Reduce your water changes, once ammonia and nitrite are both below 0.25ppm, only doing changes often and regular enough to keep these two chemicals below this bench-mark.

HTH

rabbut

 

[GRJ]

I only have fake plants in their at the minute so thats no problem. I have gotmy buckets ready to do a 50% water change in the morning and then i will do another tomorrow night. I shall only feed them the minimal amount of food and make sure the gravel is vaccumed thoroughly. I do have some ammo lock but was unsure about using it whilst cycling, i didnt know if it would mess the parameters about or not. Once the ammonia levels reach 0.25 should i do fewer water changes or still do daily ones but a lesser percentage? Like 20% or something. i will post the results tomorrow after the ater change in the morning. Thanks for the advice.GRJ

 

[rabbut]

Yes, you would reduce either the frequency, or volume of water changes, so that the filter gardualy comes to be able to support the tank, and its occupants. I would personaly go with frequence first, so as to reduce the stress on the fishes. After vacing the gravel tomorrow, I would stop vacing till the end of the week, at least. You disturb any bactiria that are on the gravel every time you do a gravel vac. You obviously dont want to be doing this at the moment. With minimal feeding, you may be able to get the frequency of gravel vacing down to once a fortnight. Especialy since you are only lightly stocked.

You need to look for a source of bactiria, for breaking down your ammonia and nitrite when you get it. Could you possibly collect some gravel from a mature tank, to aid the kick start of your filters?

Hope this has cleared things up

Rabbut

 

[Joby]

The mature media was sourced from 3 separate cycled tanks that I have so I have no idea why its not doing its job I have no reading of ammonia or nitrite in mine, they are cycled and have been for some time. The tanks they came out of house similar stocking levels as well so should be more than up to the job of cycling GRJ's

 

[rabbut]

Joby, how long have you had the media in your filters?

Joby + GRJ, how did you transport the mature media?

GRJ, can you tell me the exact order in which you filled your tank, introduced mature media, fish and added tap water conditioner.

I need to know the answer to these questions to work out why the bactiria on/ that were, on the filter media, are no longer doing their job.

 

[Joby]

The pads had been in the filters for at least 18 months, the gravel in the aquarium for at least 3 years all cycled never had a problem with them. I took the pads (one half of a fluval 2 from 2 different tanks) minutes before GRJ arrived and dropped them into the tank where I was getting the gravel from next to the filter outflow. After chatting away for 15 mins or so I bagged them up in tank water and he took them home which was around a 15 min drive I believe so they were out of the filter for only half an hour.

Its frustrating that this hasn't worked as I know I can clone a tank by using this method as I have done in the past with no problems what so ever. Its how I always do it and have 16 tanks now and a betta barracks so could afford to give GRJ the amount of media I did which I thought was more than ample to do the trick

Hope you can work out what is going on here

 

[GRJ]

Hi, i set my tank up 3 weeks ago, left it running for a week, then got 5 fish, 2 zebra danios and 3 platys. The 2 zebra danios and 1 platy died within the next week, so that the cycling wouldnt stall i got another 3 platys to replace the ones that had died and i have lost one of those also. The four remaining platys seem to be doing really well. There are also some fry in there. I put the donated media in there on monday just gone which was kindly donated by Joby, i put the sponges in the free basket of my external filter and the gravel ontop of my gravel in the tank. I have carried out a 50% water change this morning, the levels before were ammonia 1.0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10 and after the water change ammonia 0.5, nitrite 0, nitrate 10, ph 7.4. I will carry out another 50% water change later today and take readings before and after and post them on her. I have done another gravel vac also this morning and wont do another now for 2 weeks or so and i have fed them enough to last them 30-60 seconds, and no more. Hope thats exlained properly GRJ.

 

[rabbut]

Ok, its good that the ammonia reduced after the water change. It needs to be half that again though. Have you done any maintanance on your filter system yet, and if so what exectly has been done and how? Also, can you confirm that your mature sponges went strait into you filter once you got them home, and that there was plenty of air in the bag, through out transit. Cheers

Rabbut

 

[GRJ]

Ok, its good that the ammonia reduced after the water change. It needs to be half that again though. Have you done any maintanance on your filter system yet, and if so what exectly has been done and how? Also, can you confirm that your mature sponges went strait into you filter once you got them home, and that there was plenty of air in the bag, through out transit. Cheers

Rabbut

Yes, there was air in the bag throughout transit andthe media was put straight into my filter within 20mins of getting it. I did empty out water from my fluval 205 external filter before adding the fish, so it had been running for a week, just to get rid of impurities from the cloudy water i had for a few days after setting up the aquarium. I didnt clean the sponges or other media and they were not left to dry out. It was done very quickly. Do you know what the problem is? I am worrie about not getting a nitrite reading. Is it because there is nitrate in there? Thanks, GRJ