Help

[hburnett]

Hi

We are new to the tropical fish world. I bought a second hand tank for my girlfriend for her brithday (inc. gravel, stones etc) and we had problems setting it up...
We have followed all of the instructions about setting the tank up and then added 6 neons, 5 of them have died and the 6th isn't looking too happy (lost its colour).
We have tested the water which was fine apart from the pH which was 8.2, so we tried adding acid to drop the pH which worked for a few hours but it returned to 8.2 within a few hours... The man in the shop said it was too high and to change the gravel and filters (as well as wiping the tank down with a small quanitity of salt). We have completed these tasks and have set the tank up again with no fish (only special sand, heater, pump and airator) and again it is doing the same thing... Please can someone help us?!!?

We live in Weston Super Mare and the water from the tap, when tested is 7.2pH..

HELP!?? Any advice would be great...

Thanks H&L

 

[smmetz]

Welcome to the forums!

Out of curiosity, what size is the tank?

I don't know a ton about water chemistry, but here are a few thoughts.

To check the true PH of your tap water, it is recommended you put some of it in a glass and let it sit for several hours or a day. When it is fresh out of the tap, it sometimes has extra disolved gasses like CO2, which lower the PH. As these extra gasses are released, the true PH will be revealed. (water in the pipes is under pressure which allows it to hold more gasses)

Also, ph lowering chemicals usually do what you described - only change the ph temporarily. Thess fluctuations in PH are usually more harmful to the fish than if the ph had stayed the same.

Lastly, your tank needs to cycle. Neons are sensitive to water quality, and are not good for cycling a tank. The ammonia that builds in the water can easily kill them. For more information on cycling, you can read this lengthy but informative post:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=175355

 

[hburnett]

Its 30"x12"x15"

I thought maybe it was the gravel changing the pH but having bought the new stuff it still has the same trouble. One shot of the acid and the pH is perfect but only for a short while. I was wondering if I should just keep fish that like 8.2pH and be done with it?! All that is in there is the running equipment and the gravel. The rest has been left out in case it was the source of the problem. It has been running this time for 10 days so far and the surviving neon is in a bucket!

 

[gilaesther]

You need to cycle your tank first. There's a great topic on fishless cycling mentioned in an above reply to your initial plee for help. Never start with tetras unless your tank has already fully cycled.

 

[hburnett]

Oh dear. The man in the shop sold me 6 neons to begin with. Have read that and will follow the instructions. Thanks!

 

[gilaesther]

Oh dear. The man in the shop sold me 6 neons to begin with. Have read that and will follow the instructions. Thanks!

I think that most of us who are new to the hobby go through a similar experience of someone at the LFS telling us that it's ok to start a tank with fish, and maybe some cycle solution, and everything will be fine... then when all or most die, we frantically search online for help, and find out we did everything all wrong

In my case, I'd even read up in advance, and still did things wrong! Consider it part of the learning experience.

 

[rdd1952]

First off, welcome to the forum.

As mentioned, I think you tank is still cycling and your fish are dying from ammonia posioning. You said all your water parameters were fine except pH (it is a little high). What are your readings for ammonia and nitrite? Those are to toxic elements in your tank. if you are using a strip test kit, they most likely don't test for ammonia which I simply can't understand since it is the first problem that every uncycled tank encounters.

As I mentioned, the pH is high. What is the pH of your tap water? If it is lower than 8.2, chances are that either the gravel or decorations are raising it which means that you may have to change it or as you said, keep something like cichlids that like high alkaline water. The worst thing you can do is try to use chemicals to adjust it as that will keep it in a constant swing which is much worse on the fish than a pH that isn't optimal. They can adjust as long as it's stable. Also, what type acid did you put in the tank? That may be a big part of your problem.

And last but not least, unfortunately, the advice you get from most fish stores, especially the chains, is marginal at best. It seems that quite a lot of the employees know absolutely nothing about keeping fish and have never heard of a fishless cycle.

 

[hburnett]

Ok tank readings as of today are

ammonia=0 ppm
nitrite= between 0 and 0.1
nitrate= 25
pH= 8.2

Tank has been running for 2 weeks with no fish or plants or decorations. Only filter, heater and gravel. Not added plants as not sure if I should get the water good first?

Tap water is 7.2 straight from tap - 7.8 after 24 hours in a glass jug and 8 after 3 days in glass jug. (dont know if this means anything but checked it anyway!)


Gravel was brand new when I re did the tank incase that was the problem and all test kits were bought today brand new in case mine were out of date or something.

I plan to cycle the tank as per instructions from link in smmetz post when I locate some ammonia. If I cycle it will pH come right or am I stuck with it?

Man in shop said adding ammonia will ruin the tank and to stick fish in anyhow and they will get used to it. Not liking that idea though so want it right first.

 

[rdd1952]

I'm not certain why the pH would rise that much simply sitting in a jug. It shouldn't change to the best of my knowledge. The man at the shop just wants to sell you more fish when they die from ammonia poisoning. Ammonia in a tank with fish in it is a bad thing but during a fishless cycle it's fine. Unfortunately, you will get a lot of bad advice from fish store employees.

 

[hburnett]

I figured has advice wasnt the best so will follow advice of here instead. I have no idea why it changed. Someone said the pressure keeps pH low in taps but I thought it would go up quicker than that.

 

[vinylman]

Add some fast growing plants such as Hygrophila Polysperma and Elodea Densa, most fish love plants for cover. Floating plants are good for cutting nitrites, too. You can never have too many plants.