Help!

[Majjie]

My cardinal tetras have been stressed recently by bullying. Culprits have been removed but the tetras came out with white spot a few days ago.

Started Interpet "Anti White Spot Plus" treatment but that combined with high temp. resulted in fish gasping at surface. Added extra aeration and all are swimming about happily this morning. All spots except one on the tail of one fish have gone.

BUT one fish has a huge ring of cotton wool like growth around one eye - looks like it's pushing th eye out of its' socket! It's grown remarkably quickly - no sign yesterday.

I presume this is columnaris.

Question is what to do??

Original med is still in water and due for second dose tomorrow (need to continue with this because all spots not yet gone)

I have Myxazin - should i add this too. Or should I try a salt bath just for that fish???

 

[Majjie]

I guess Sunday lunch time isn't a good time to ask. I'll try the salt bath.

 

[black angel]

Sounds like a secondary infection as the fish are weakened by the ich. Fungus clears up with salt baths and you would need to use a weak solution as cardinals dont relly like much if any salt. Maybe the fish has popeye and this is a bacterial condition. Keep up with water changes and keep an eye on water perams. If the other eye pops out then best to euthenize as the kidneys may well be damaged.

 

[Majjie]

Thanks Black Angel

I wondered about cardinals and salt - but I decided something drastic was needed so put him in a 2% solution until he floated on his side and then whisked him back into the main tank. Thought he was a goner - but he recovered and is swimming around with the others. Don't suppose he'd survive many baths like that though.

I don't think it's pop eye - but it could be fungus. I was worried about Columnaris because I understand it can be very fast in its' effects.

Not sure what to do next. There are Panda corys in the main tank so don't want to add salt there.

 

[black angel]

If he took the salt ok then tomorrow just a teaspoon in a gallon of water will be enough for around 15 seconds if he can take it and try that for three days. If it doesnt improve, then get a remedy for fungal infections and treat the main tank.

 

[Majjie]

OK will do thanks. I'll finish the white spot treatment, change 50% water and try fungal treatment. Hope he survives until then!

 

[drango91]

sounds like popeye

 

[Majjie]

No it's not popeye, I've had fish with that before. Their eyes have been cloudy but this is white and fluffy - either fungus as Black Angel said or columnaris.

I tried another drastic salt bath on the cardinal on the same day (the eye socket looked dreadful - long threads hanging off it) but the next morning another of the cardinals had the same white fluffy circle around the eye socket (eye had already gone). I decided then that it was probably columnaris (bacterial, quick growing and likes high temperatures) - so I did a 50% water change and added both Pimafix (just in case fungal) and Myxazin. This means that the white spot meds were not finished but I figured that the eye infections were more urgent.

Unfortunately the second cardinal was dead by the end of the day. Perhaps I should have repeated the salt bath (a method I found in a link from one of Wilder's posts in the past - admittedly for slightly larger discus!). The original cardinal is still alive and kicking (flipping? )

No more deaths since Monday and fish are looking perky but white spot is increasing again, including some white patches.

Guess it's important to finish Myxazin treatment (5 days). As soon as finished will change 50% water and take stock. Maybe give them 24 hours before adding white spot treatment again. Unless anyone's got any better suggestions?

Poor little things. I hope they make it. (Panda corys by the way seem fine and completely unaffected by white spot, columnaris/fungus or all the meds - fingers crossed ).

 

[black angel]

Have you tested the water quality recently? Although saying that bacteria cant be tested for but lots of regular large water changes and filter cleaning should keep the bacteria down. Do you gravel vac at all? As this is important.
How big is your tank?

I dont think its columnaris but a fungal disease. For the ich i suggest raising the temperature to 32c and adding lots of extra air as ich doesnt like high temps.

Wilth careful water management you should be able to get this under control.

 

[Majjie]

Take your point, Black Angel, about keeping up with water testing (especially with all these meds!) - but seems ok. Just done tests:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 12.5
pH 7.5

It's a 40 litre tank and I change around 25% of the water once a week, normally (it's been more since I had these problems). I have also been very careful about vaccing the sand since I got the Panda corys (five of them) just over a week ago. I know they need good conditions.

The pandas replaced four sparkling gouramis - which were bullying the cardinals and which have been moved to another tank (they're looking fine).

There are five (originally six) cardinal tetras and one neon. They were stressed by the gouramis and then by me removing the gouramis (which were a nightmare to catch). I thought they might be calmed down by the corys busy about the bottom of the tank and having the rest of it to themselves. But they came down with the ich a couple of days later - and that's where we came in.

I have just turned up the thermostat on the heater - thanks for that - I hadn't thought about the temp going down in the last couple of days.

You could very well be right about the eye infection being fungal. I haven't come across any fishy fungal infections before. The question is; has it now gone? Is Pimafix any good as an antifungal?

 

[Chris_Wood]

Hi Majjie,

I have recently has exactly the same thing happen with the white spot and fin rot to my six cardinals, all of which died within a matter of days even with med treatment !

You say you also see white patches on some of your cardinals - is that on other parts of their main body, I was initially attributing this to fin nipping and have since removed my Rams. Do you have anything that would nip the fins / body of your cardinals?

I am hopeing that my remaining 6 rummy noses (two of which still have whitespot, one quite badly) recover with the remaining treatment.

I have also recently seen some cardinals in this condition at the local Maidenhead Aquatic Centre (which I personally think are crap, guy has no idea at all!). How recently did you get your cardinals? I'm wondering if there is a recently imported batch that is completely diseased once off the importers antibiotics?

CW

 

[Majjie]

Funny you should say that Chris!

Three of my cardinals did indeed come from Maidenhead Aquatics - in Notts - about three weeks ago. And their fins were a tad ragged at the edges when I looked closely.

All the cardinals came down with white spot at the same time, though, including the three originals which I've had for about eight months (they were bought as companions for my one neon - the only survivor from neon tetra disease )

The gouramis were head butting the cardinals more than nipping fins and I don't think they caused any physical damage

The white patches are on their bodies but they're nowhere near as white as the ich spots and are only visible at the right angle. They could just be slime (I've known quite a few different fish in the past come out in patches of slime when stressed) - or they could be fungal - or they could be columnaris - it's so difficult to tell!

Good luck with your rummy noses