Help With Test Results

[ellena]

So I've got a community tank planned, and just checked my water with api kits. pH straight up to 7.6 on the regular kit, so I tried the high pH one too, which gave 7.4, I think, it might have been 7.8, hard to distinguish.
Then the KH, 11 drops and it went from blue to green, then fully to yellow with the 12th drop. That's 12 degrees KH and 214.8ppm KH/GH.
The GH didn't go so well. I wouldn't have called it orange at any stage, just a bright yellow. I gave up after adding 24 drops and it still hadn't changed to green! When I lived at my last house, about 2 miles away, I can't remember the exact numbers, but I know one of the results was really high and the other really low. Could it have been 'orange' all along?
So, how would you interpret these results? I'm only looking at fairly standard hobby fish, which should I avoid? Will I be able to keep shrimp?
I have a fish shop less than 1/4 mile away, is there anything to be said for buying fish there over anywhere else, if their tanks test the same?
Thanks for any tips

 

[Byron]

My first suggestion would be to check with your municipal water supply people to ascertain the GH, KH and pH.  They might have a website with water testing data posted.
 
Once you have a better idea of the GH, it will be easier to suggest fish.  GH does affect fish as we are here dealing with the presence of "hard" minerals, primarily calcium.  Your pH is fine for many species.  The KH acts to "buffer" the pH, preventing fluctuations, so with a KH this high the pH is likely to remain stable and at the level it comes out of the tap.  BTW, the high-range test is different from the basic, and I would only use one from now on, and here the basic would be best.
 
Byron.

 

[ellena]

Thank you I can't find anything on the Severn Trent website I'll try it again tonight. Have you used the api? Just wondered if the yellow I got is supposed to be the orange or the green. So frustrating cos it's dark except when I'm at work! I've got a daylight lamp, I'll try that...

 

[Byron]

Thank you

I can't find anything on the Severn Trent website I'll try it again tonight. Have you used the api? Just wondered if the yellow I got is supposed to be the orange or the green. So frustrating cos it's dark except when I'm at work! I've got a daylight lamp, I'll try that...

 
I have the API test for GH/KH.  The green to orange change for the GH is very obvious with my present kit.  It wasn't with my former, which may have been old (regents can give out).  Call the water people and ask for the general hardness; they must know.  At least them you will know the starting point.  And depending what it is, you can select appropriate fish and never have to test GH or KH again.
 
And you do have to be careful with the light.  I never test under artificial light, as this has its own colour wavelengths that will affect the colours on the card.  Never use direct sunlight either.  Best light is natural daylight (as in front of a window or door) that is not in direct sun.  This does make a difference; I have seen differences standing inside the door and just outside the door.  More with the pH colours than GH.
 
Byron.

 

[ellena]

I've just found out how to read all my old posts and found this post http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/320781-hardness-causing-fish-deaths/ from when I tested my water and I had 5KH and 17GH, so the water here is very different, only 2 miles down the road. My water board cover a vast area, I'll try calling them, but are they likely to have info that specific?

 

[Essjay]

If you enter your postcode in here it should give you your water quality report, which ST say includes your hardness. Just tried it with their example postcode and hardness is at the top of the list. You want the value in German degrees.

 

[ellena]

:") Thanks so much for that, I did look, honest! Right, I've got 10.85 German degrees

 

[ellena]

Does the lack of replies mean I've got the water from hell?!
I'm doing some research but the combo of fast and hard water seems to be quite a difficult one. Gouramis were my initial plan, but the flow would be far too fast I think. I can turn it down, but the hengelis seem to have such fun swimming in the current, it would be a shame.
Forktail rainbows would work, but I don't think they're visually different enough. The Gouramis have such a different body shape, they'd really contrast. Peacock gobies need slow flow, though, near the bottom it might be calmer. I can't see plants moving around down there.
Still got nitrites, so no new stock for a while, but it's fun 'shopping'

 

[Byron]

The GH at 10 dGH is not at all bad, that is moderately hard.  There are a lot of fish that will manage fine, and with this the pH is in the mid 7's so that's OK.
 
Water flow is something you can control, and it must be suitable for the fish species.  Fish that are forced to exist in a strong current are spending a lot of energy to do so, and remember this is 24/7.  Fish need rest during darkness too, just like we do.  If the species is designed to cling onto a rock in a fast current, fine, it will have natural ways of getting its rest.  But if the fish is a gourami that is designed to sit basically motionless in the still water of a swamp, as many of them are, this is a sure way to cause severe stress and a shorter lifespan.  All the energy being used to maintain its position in a current is energy that is not being used to keep its immune system functioning, its tissues fed, digestion, a steady blood pH, and so forth.
 
I have maintained dozens of species of fish for more than 20 years, and most in larger tanks (4 and 5 feet in length) where I can have more water flow at one end from the filter outflow and next-to-none at the opposite end.  It is very telling how species will select their preference and remain there, and the majority do not stay in the current for long.  You mention hengeli rasbora; these fish do not "like" strong currents.  The species is native to certain areas of the Greater Sundra Islands, Sumatra and Borneo, Indonesia, and occurs in slow-flowing streams thick with aquatic plants.  This is my favourite of the three similar species, and mine are in a 3-foot 33g tank with scarcely any water movement as the tank is filtered by a simple sponge filter in the rear corner.  A good companion for many though not all gourami species, which share similar water conditions.
 
Byron.

 

[ellena]

Right, thank you very much for that answer So turning down the flow would help the fish I have and open up stocking. Stupid technical q then, the filter is tetratec ex600, the manual says adjust the flow by turning the tap on the water returning to tank. Should I adjust the other tap too, or will that adjust itself if less is allowed out the other end?
And what about the turnover? Will it matter that it's reduced? Advertised rate for the filter is 600lph.

 

[Byron]

Right, thank you very much for that answer

So turning down the flow would help the fish I have and open up stocking. Stupid technical q then, the filter is tetratec ex600, the manual says adjust the flow by turning the tap on the water returning to tank. Should I adjust the other tap too, or will that adjust itself if less is allowed out the other end?
And what about the turnover? Will it matter that it's reduced? Advertised rate for the filter is 600lph.

 
I don't know the filter mentioned, so again some "general" comments.  My view on filters is that the filter should be rated for the tank volume.  I've no experience with the filter you have, but I suspect the data on it will recommend it for tanks of  "x" volume.  Generally, there is no need to go beyond this.  If you have live plants, they will do a lot of natural filtering.
 
We need to keep in mind the purpose of a filter.  In all tanks, the prime purpose is water circulation.  As I discussed in my previous post here, this is (or should be) governed by the fish species.  Of course, we assume the tank is balanced to begin with, that is, there are not too many fish, or too large fish in size, for the system to handle.  The water circulation is the "clear water" aspect, the mechanical filtration, as this is how you remove suspended particulate matter from the water column.  The second function of a filter is biological filtration, the nitrification cycle.  Live plants do this very well, so this aspect can be adjusted depending upon the fish species, plants, etc.  "Messy" fish need better water circulation for both mechanical and biological filtration.  Smaller fish, quieter fish, and live plants all make the biological aspect less important.  A third aspect, chemical filtration, involves somehow adjusting the water conditions with chemical media such as carbon.  With plants this is not advised, and generally it is not necessary unless there is some specific issue requiring it.
 
Byron.

 

[ellena]

Of course, that makes sense, thank you The filter is rated for 60-120l, and my tank is 60l. I've turned it down and the hengelis are just as active in what flow there still is. And now I can think again about gouramis and adjust the flow down some more if they need it.
Really appreciate the reply, thanks

 

[Byron]

Of course, that makes sense, thank you

The filter is rated for 60-120l, and my tank is 60l. I've turned it down and the hengelis are just as active in what flow there still is. And now I can think again about gouramis and adjust the flow down some more if they need it.
Really appreciate the reply, thanks

 
You are most welcome.  It is difficult to know the experience/understanding of the member asking questions, but I always think it better to explain the background just in case.
 
Another thing that works to reduce current without reducing flow is to aim the filter return against the closest end wall of the tank.  The flow then hits the glass and disperses over a wider area, thus reducing the current but maintaining the same flow of water.  Again I don't know your particular filter, but if the water return can be moved to achieve this, it will make quite a difference.
 
Another trick that I have used is to stand a chunk of wood in front of the filter return, or in front of the end wall, whichever.  This also forces the water flow to spread out more, reducing the current but still not impacting the flow itself.
 
Byron.

 

[ellena]

Good call, there's a spray bar, which I could aim at the back glass.

 

[Byron]

Good call, there's a spray bar, which I could aim at the back glass.

 
That's ideal.  I usually aim the line of holes at the end wall (the spray bar obviously is attached to this wall) at an angle so there is a bit of surface movement.  The main thrust is down the wall and along the bottom, which is exactly what you want anyway.  B.