Help! We Have A Problem With Our Male Siamese Fighter And Red Tail

[fish novice]

Hi!

I wondered if I could ask for some expert advice as we are a bit stumped. We have a 60L approx and we have 3 neon tetras (was 4 but had a loss this morning) 2 clown loaches, a red male siamese fighter, a red tailed black shark, 2 tiger loaches (I think) and 3 black phantom tetras and a knife fish, who is very very placid.

Over the last few weeks we have noticed that the red tailed black shark is getting very aggressive towards the other fish. He chases around the other fish especially the black phantom tetras and now we have noticed that the fighter's fins look a bit ragged. He was really really quiet and happy in the tank but now he is really aggressive showing his flap under his gills all the time, especially to the red tailed shark and is chasing him around. We think tha the shark has been attacking the fighter and now he's retaliating.

Does anyone have any ideas other than re-homing the shark? Will our fighter go back to normal once the shark is gone?

 

[Adie]

Hi!

I wondered if I could ask for some expert advice as we are a bit stumped. We have a 60L approx and we have 3 neon tetras (was 4 but had a loss this morning) 2 clown loaches, a red male siamese fighter, a red tailed black shark, 2 tiger loaches (I think) and 3 black phantom tetras and a knife fish, who is very very placid.

Over the last few weeks we have noticed that the red tailed black shark is getting very aggressive towards the other fish. He chases around the other fish especially the black phantom tetras and now we have noticed that the fighter's fins look a bit ragged. He was really really quiet and happy in the tank but now he is really aggressive showing his flap under his gills all the time, especially to the red tailed shark and is chasing him around. We think tha the shark has been attacking the fighter and now he's retaliating.

Does anyone have any ideas other than re-homing the shark? Will our fighter go back to normal once the shark is gone?

I can see a flurry of responses already.

1. Betta's are very territorial, RTBS are too - already you can see the problems
2. You *may* be able to get away with keeping the RTBS in the tank, you will need to remove the fighter into his own tank though - I would say that both the tetras and the RTBS are nipping at him. The RTBS would be a given.

 

[bronzecat]

Hi
I think you may have some compatability problems in your tank??

The Red tailed shark can become highly terrortorial and aggressive, and should only be kept with robust mid-swimming fish.

The clown loaches are capable of reaching 12 - 15 inches in length and are deffo not suitable for a 60L tank.

Depending on what Knife fish you have, some species can reach 20 inches!!

Whatever, you will have to rehome/take back these fish, or get a massive tank to put them in. Like really massive!

I think you need to address these issue pronto

 

[Athena]

I would rehome the Betta - find him a nice little tank, on his own and he'll be more than happy. Your shark is probably trying to set territory boundaries and will chase fish that enter his patch of the tank (and a bit more just for the hell of it!), especially as there are quite a few fish in that tank so there can't be that much space to call his own - and RBS's are territorial. They could each also be battling to be top of the pecking order.

I have my male betta in a 1ft cube tank and he's so much happier and relaxed than when he was in my community tank.

My RBS is in a 2ft community tank with just a couple of platies and 1 molly + quite a few platy fry - he is the most placid from all of them and hides as soon as any other fish goes near him. I think he must be an oddball, though, cos I've heard that RBS's are not usually so quiet.

All the best - Athena

 

[fish novice]

Hi
I think you may have some compatability problems in your tank??

The Red tailed shark can become highly terrortorial and aggressive, and should only be kept with robust mid-swimming fish.

The clown loaches are capable of reaching 12 - 15 inches in length and are deffo not suitable for a 60L tank.

Depending on what Knife fish you have, some species can reach 20 inches!!

Whatever, you will have to rehome/take back these fish, or get a massive tank to put them in. Like really massive!

I think you need to address these issue pronto

We are in the process of getting a 4ft tank, this is just temporary accommodation for them at the moment. We don't know how long it will be until we get a new tank but it will be in the next 2 or 3 months. Is there anyway that we can keep both the RTBS and Betta happy? I feel inclined to put the RTBS into a seperate tank as he is bullying all the other fish, tetras and betta included.

Do you think this is a suitable solution, or seperate the fighter and allow the RTBS to terrorise the other fish?

 

[Adie]

In my experience the RTBS will chase most fish in the tank with them - like I said earlier they're VERY territorial.

I've got a 180l tank and had to take the RTBS back to the LFS because he was beating the crap out of my other fish. I've got Denisonii barbs at 4-5 inches in my 180l and they were being terrorised by a juvie RTBS night and day.

They will calm down, but you can't keep a Betta and RTBS in the same tank, they will fight non-stop and they are much stronger swimmers than Bettas. You will most likely lose the Betta. I'd either take him back to the shop or rehome him into his own tank asap.

 

[bronzecat]

If the RTBS is showing that much aggression now, he'll only get worse as he matures, Personally i would rehome him.

A 4ft tank is still not gonna be big enough for you to put the Knife fish, let alone the clowns as well. I've just read that most species of Knifes grow to about 17 inches and are highly predatory. You may get away with just the clowns in a 4ft but thats it.

Why dont you get a 5 gallon, put the betta in it, then rehome the knifes and clowns and have a nice 60L community?? Either way, you are well over stocked already. You have something like 70 inches of adult size fish in a 12 gallon tank, which is some 58 inches too much.

BTW, did an local fish shop sell you these fish and said they would be ok??

 

[fish novice]

In my experience the RTBS will chase most fish in the tank with them - like I said earlier they're VERY territorial.

I've got a 180l tank and had to take the RTBS back to the LFS because he was beating the crap out of my other fish. I've got Denisonii barbs at 4-5 inches in my 180l and they were being terrorised by a juvie RTBS night and day.

They will calm down, but you can't keep a Betta and RTBS in the same tank, they will fight non-stop and they are much stronger swimmers than Bettas. You will most likely lose the Betta. I'd either take him back to the shop or rehome him into his own tank asap.

Thanks for your help. As I've got the day off today I will pop down to the fish shop and get a little tank of his own. I will log on later and give all an update as to how he's doing. Looking at the betta he does need some R&R and a home of his own.

 

[Adie]

In my experience the RTBS will chase most fish in the tank with them - like I said earlier they're VERY territorial.

I've got a 180l tank and had to take the RTBS back to the LFS because he was beating the crap out of my other fish. I've got Denisonii barbs at 4-5 inches in my 180l and they were being terrorised by a juvie RTBS night and day.

They will calm down, but you can't keep a Betta and RTBS in the same tank, they will fight non-stop and they are much stronger swimmers than Bettas. You will most likely lose the Betta. I'd either take him back to the shop or rehome him into his own tank asap.

Thanks for your help. As I've got the day off today I will pop down to the fish shop and get a little tank of his own. I will log on later and give all an update as to how he's doing. Looking at the betta he does need some R&R and a home of his own.

No worries - I take it you're re-homing the Betta?

Make sure you get a heater, and a small-ish filter as they can get blown around by the current.

You won't need an airstone as their labrynth organs enable them to breathe from the air. If you get plants try to buy silk one as the plastic variety can damage their fins, and a coconut cave or something like that would be appreciated as a hidey hole.

 

[fish novice]

A fish shop did say they would be okay living together, we told him what we have and the size tank and he said that they would all get along fine but we would have to upgrade the tank as they get bigger. Hense the reason we thought that a small tank would be okay in the meantime until we upgraded in the near future.

In my experience the RTBS will chase most fish in the tank with them - like I said earlier they're VERY territorial.

I've got a 180l tank and had to take the RTBS back to the LFS because he was beating the crap out of my other fish. I've got Denisonii barbs at 4-5 inches in my 180l and they were being terrorised by a juvie RTBS night and day.

They will calm down, but you can't keep a Betta and RTBS in the same tank, they will fight non-stop and they are much stronger swimmers than Bettas. You will most likely lose the Betta. I'd either take him back to the shop or rehome him into his own tank asap.

Thanks for your help. As I've got the day off today I will pop down to the fish shop and get a little tank of his own. I will log on later and give all an update as to how he's doing. Looking at the betta he does need some R&R and a home of his own.

No worries - I take it you're re-homing the Betta?

Make sure you get a heater, and a small-ish filter as they can get blown around by the current.

You won't need an airstone as their labrynth organs enable them to breathe from the air. If you get plants try to buy silk one as the plastic variety can damage their fins, and a coconut cave or something like that would be appreciated as a hidey hole.

Yeah we will re-home the betta, as long as he is much happier in a tank of his own than in the community like at the moment. Thanks for the advice

 

[Athena]

Sounds like your RBS is wanting to be top dog and bullying the other fish into submission. Does he have his own little area in the tank that he can go chill out in? For example, a cave of some sort (either ornamental or one built out of, say, slate and pebbles) and some plants to act as a natural territory barrier? They do like their own bit of space and if he doesn't have this then it will make him stressed and aggressive towards the other fish and he'll just be lashing out at anything that moves near him.

Do you have a spare tank already set up that you can move either the RBS or the Betta into?

Athena

 

[bronzecat]

Just to put it in perspective, if you dont sort the knife fish out it will be bye bye to all the other fish in the near future cus they'll terrorise them or worse Especially the smaller fish.

 

[Adie]

A fish shop did say they would be okay living together, we told him what we have and the size tank and he said that they would all get along fine but we would have to upgrade the tank as they get bigger. Hense the reason we thought that a small tank would be okay in the meantime until we upgraded in the near future.

Most people on here would tell you not to listen to LFS advice as it's generally crap. You've just experienced your first taste.

Where did you go to buy the fish?

If you're in any doubt - check on here first, you're more likely to get the correct advice from another member. Most of us have experienced what you're going through at some point in their hobby. I've had fish for 18 months now, and been lucky so far.

 

[fish novice]

Sounds like your RBS is wanting to be top dog and bullying the other fish into submission. Does he have his own little area in the tank that he can go chill out in? For example, a cave of some sort (either ornamental or one built out of, say, slate and pebbles) and some plants to act as a natural territory barrier? They do like their own bit of space and if he doesn't have this then it will make him stressed and aggressive towards the other fish and he'll just be lashing out at anything that moves near him.

Do you have a spare tank already set up that you can move either the RBS or the Betta into?

Athena

We don't have a spare tank set up already, I assume we would have to wait for the water to mature etc before we can re-home him? We have been on holiday for 2 weeks and have come back to all this fighting, so we were not expecting it.


The guy in the fish shop said that the knife fish would be okay in a community tank but he may eat other small fish. He doesn't come out from his hidey hole, even at night really.

The RTBS Does have places to hide, he hardly spends anytime hiding though, he is always out swimming around as if he is patrolling his territory.

 

[Athena]

No, from personal experience, you don't necessarily have to wait for your new Betta tank to mature before adding him - he'll probably not be alive if you wait that long, anyway, judging by the war that's going on where he is right now.

You will only be adding one fish to the new tank so the ammonia levels will be controllable - he is not going to churn out much ammonia on his own and cause a spike. So set the tank up, get the conditioned water to the right temp and then add your Betta to his new home. If you do regular 25% water changes, say weekly, it should all be fine. This is what I did and my Betta has been living happily in his 1ft tank for the last few months with no problems.

All the best!