Help Please, Sick Clown Loach

[al plecino]

Hi all,

I hope someone can help me with my poorly clown loach, thanks in advance.

140 litre tank
ammonia 1.5mg/l
nitrite < 0.1 mg/l
nitrate <5mg/l
ph 7.5
kh 125.3ppm
temp 26 C

Got some new fish about 6 weeks ago including a pair of clown loaches, one has grown steadily and looks fine while the other stayed small but otherwise looked healthy apart from a slightly darker colouring. Now the small one just curls up and plays dead (ish) and doesn't even try to swim away when i put in the net. Now I know clowns do this sometimes but not for a full day and night and they always normally swim away if you try and net them. Found him this morning wrapped around the filter intake and he could only get off when i switched the pump off. He seems to have trouble staying upright and rolls over onto his back and curls his tail.

All the other fish look healthy and are behaving as normal.

Tank mates,

1 x pleco about 8"
2 x clowns about 5"
4 x zebra danios
5 x gourami
2 x flying fox
2 x silver shark
2 x baby plecs under 1"
1 x pink catfish?? 1" long
2 x clown loach - 1 healthy about 2" the other is the sick one.

Thankyou.

 

[backtotropical]

How old is your tank. The fact that you have readings of ammonia and nitrite is immediately ringing alarm bells.

 

[al plecino]

How old is your tank. The fact that you have readings of ammonia and nitrite is immediately ringing alarm bells.

Thanks for the quick reply.
Been up and running about 16 weeks, run it empty for 6 weeks and got it cycled, added fish from my old tank and left it till getting new fish about 8 weeks ago.
I did water tests every week and they were all ok according to the kit, the only real change is the ammonia going up slightly, but still acceptable according to the test kit ?

Why is the ammonia and nitrite ringing alarm bells, Is this a one fish problem or do you suspect something else.

 

[*Fishkies*]

According to those water stats your tank is not officially cycled.
Also how often do you perform water changes?

Are you sure the other clown loach is finding food?
Does he look skinner then normal?
How does his color look?
Did you purchase the two clown loaches together?

 

[backtotropical]

I did water tests every week and they were all ok according to the kit, the only real change is the ammonia going up slightly, but still acceptable according to the test kit ?

Test kits do give an acceptable level of ammonia and nitrite but i wouldn't go by it. Anything other than 0 indicates your tank is cycling or you are just overloading your filter.

Why is the ammonia and nitrite ringing alarm bells, Is this a one fish problem or do you suspect something else.

It sounds like your water is the problem. Do a 50% water change immediately. That will ease the load on the fish for now. You need to get ammonia and nitrite back to 0 as soon as possible. I think the route of the problem is maybe that you have too much livestock for the size of your tank and your filter is just not coping. Can you provide more info on how large each fish is?

 

[al plecino]

According to those water stats your tank is not officially cycled.



Also how often do you perform water changes? - about one a month, 25%

Are you sure the other clown loach is finding food? - yes he seemed fine up to 2 days ago.

Does he look skinner then normal? - yes not growing as fast as the other one

How does his color look? - slightly darker / not as bright as the others

Did you purchase the two clown loaches together? yes. both got at the same time.

This is table of readings when i thought the tank "cycled"

daily readings

day ammonia nitrate nitrite

1 0.1 / - / -
2 0.1 / - / -
3 1.0 / 7 / 0.3
4 1.5 / 20 / 0.8
5 0.25 / 5 / 0.5
6 0.1 / 10 / 0.3
7 0.1 / 7 / 0.3

10 0.0 / 5 / 0.1

weekly readings stayed very similar to this last one but now the ammonia has gone up.

 

[Puffdaddy]

How many fish did you add 6 weeks ago? You said you cycled the tank then added fish from you other tank and then you added more fish 6 weeks ago. I have a feeling that maybe you added to many fish to quick and your biofilter (nitrifing bacteria) could not cope with the increase of the bioload (fish waste) which in return cause a mini cycle. The one clown may have been sick to beggin with and is having some ill effects to the ammonia and nitrite readings. Your ammonia and nitrite should always be at 0mg/l, it is ok to have a nitrate reading but try to keep it below 40mg/l. You should be doing 50% water changes everyday or every other day until the ammonia and nitrite readings are 0mg/l then start do the water changes once a week with gravel vac. Also when your fish start getting older your going to start having some serious problems. Alot of your fish are going to out grow that tank. I would start doing some research on all your fish and determine which ones have to go. Otherwise they will all start acting like the clown loach. Sorry to the bearer of bad news.

 

[al plecino]

[quote
It sounds like your water is the problem. Do a 50% water change immediately. That will ease the load on the fish for now. You need to get ammonia and nitrite back to 0 as soon as possible. I think the route of the problem is maybe that you have too much livestock for the size of your tank and your filter is just not coping. Can you provide more info on how large each fish is?
[/quote]

Did 25% change last night will do another now, nitrite and nitrate not registering on test kits, i.e. they are in the first band of the colour chart.

pleco about 8 inch
2 x clowns 5 to 6 inch
4 danios all about 3/4 inch
5 gouramis , 4 about 2 inch 1 smaller
2 flying fox about 2 to 3 inch
2 silver shark about 2 to 3 inch
2 baby plecs under 1 inch
1 1.5 inch catfish.

Thanks for the reply's guys.

 

[al plecino]

ok quick update,

Did 25-30% water change last night,

Went to do water tests today and had run out of the ammonia test kit so went and bought a complete new kit for ammonia,nitrate, nitrite and ph, results below all using the new kits.

ammonia zero
nitrite zero
nitrate 20mg/l
ph 8

Can a water change achieve such a drastic change overnight i.e ammonia from 1.5 to zero and nitrate from below 5 to over 20mg/l ? or do the test kits "go off" with age and i've been getting dodgy results ?
Still no improvement with my sick loach. Is there anything I can do for him?, all the other fish are looking fine and appear to be thriving.

I'm a bit confused now and dont know if its a tank problem or just one fish thats the problem, he hasn't grown anything like the other loach that we got at the same time.

thanks guys,

al

 

[-germ-]

Could be a wide range of illnesses; if there are no other issues then it may be blood flagellates (no idea on this, i've been stuck as to whats wrong and it came upon a couple of searches, although it is considered rare) or possible parasites internal and or skin......
Has the loach actually lost weight? Or has it always been small, clowns have a heirachy where the submissive loach(es) would tend to be smaller than the dominant....
I think

 

[al plecino]

Hi Germ,

Thanks for the reply, the sick one always was smaller and hasn't really grown much at all while the other one has grown by around half his size again. Havn't noticed him being bullied or chased by the others in fact one of my older loaches actually lay beside him for a while last night as if trying to comfort him.
Any thoughts on the test kit results?

Al

 

[-germ-]

In a rush off to work;
I'd keep up 25% water changes daily (or more, i did 60% daily a 20% in morning, noon and night)until the ammonia issue is resolved.
Also make sure your substrate is good and clean....
Keep testing daily and if in 3 days or so your still getting a zero for your ammonia and nitrite then i'd assume the tank is cycled and you siply suffered a spike, could be explained if you use any ammo-lock type products.
I'd consider treating for parasites but this IS only a guess,has there been any flicking? Also be careful about treating because clown loaches are considered sensitive to some medications.....
Good luck, i'll post back later.

 

[backtotropical]

do the test kits "go off" with age?

Yes. I recommend replacing them after 6 months. (you'll probably get a lot of opinions on this one, i think) How long have you had your original test kit?

 

[al plecino]

do the test kits "go off" with age?

Yes. I recommend replacing them after 6 months. (you'll probably get a lot of opinions on this one, i think) How long have you had your original test kit?

Hi backtotropical,

Probably a bit longer than 6 months so I think i'll bin the old ones, at least that will be one factor ruled out.

cheers

Al

 

[WILDER]

Clown loaches are very prone to skinny desease does the fish look skinny.
http/www.bollmoraakvarieklubb.org/artikl...own%20loach.htm[/urlTaken from the link.

urlTaken from the link.
Loss of weight or "skinny disease" is also quite common in Clown loaches. Typical symptoms are loss of weight and behaviour known as "knifeback" even though the fish is acting and eating normally. This sickness is more difficult to treat, it comes from a parasite organism (spironucleus) in the intestines of the same type that is thought to cause the so called "discus disease". I have successfully removed this disease from newly imported fish by using Spirohexol from JBL in the form of tablets. I have taken one tablet and crushed it and dissolve it in as little water as possible. I have then used discus granules which have been soaked in the solution. It becomes like a thick porridge after a short time when the food has drawn in the liquid. I then feed this to the sick fishes, after a week it looks like the sickness is gone. For the best possible effect do not feed with any other food. Flagyl (Metronidazole) also helps fight against this sickness but at least here in Sweden it is on prescription and can be a little difficult to come by.



Apart from this Clown loaches are not more susceptible than other fish, the above sickness usually occurs in fish that have been stressed during transport or subjected to other stress factors like cold water or poor aquarium hygiene. Do not buy fish that look emaciated! Well looked after fish are seldom sick. To quote my friend Elisabeth Hallberg; "the best way to avoid sickness is to keep the fish healthy".