Help Needed With Ongoing Situation

[si_monsta]

Hello all, I really hope I can get some advice on this one... thank you in advance. I came into the hobby last yr. a noob and made my big mistake. On beginners luck I established a community tank & then I added some fish from the same store that were carrying many infections. I promptly removed these fish. Then I successfully treated ich. Then a bacterial infection. At that point, I wised up and realized the underlying problem is fluke infestation. I tried and tried to kill the flukes. Fed medicated food- metronidazole and fubenzole at a higher temp, didn't work. Treated for 1 month w/prazi pro, didn't work. I lost my shrimp to these treatments, and then 4 of my tiger barbs died from fluke infestation (their fins were torn to shreds and they succumbed at that point). I have left- 2 barbs, a rainbow shark, and a spiny eel. There is no more flashing or stringy poo as was the case in the beginning. The symptoms that still manifest are split fins in the barbs, and the sharks anal fins are tipped with white necrotic tissue, and the shark also has red dots on his belly, and at the base of the tail fin. I just finished a course of General Cure (prazi + metro), and I'm cautiously waiting to see if the fins split again... they always have before after every course of treatment. I do have a plan, however, and this is where I need help. My tank is 35 gallon w/pebble substrate. I bought another 28 gallon tank. Do I...

A) Start a fresh, healthy tank, attempt to cycle by dropping blood worms in the water, then put in the infested fish with a course of coppersafe for a month, while the original tank gets a 100% water change, scrap all the substrate and ornaments, run for a month at 90F and then 100% change again)

B) Do A except cycle the new tank with bacteria from the infested original tank?

or,

C) Scrap the substrate and ornaments, do a 100% water change and then treat with coppersafe in the original tank leaving the new tank as a clean slate.

Please advise? Can a clean tank + coppersafe eradicate flukes? I am at my wit's end!! THANK YOU SO MUCH.

 

[WILDER]

Sign of flukes are.
Opaque body with excess slime.
Red inflamed gills, or pale gills with excess slime.
Flicking and rubbing.
Darting or erratic swimming.
Laboured breathing or gasping at the surface of the tank.
Red sores or red pin prick marks on the fish.
Fish will swim in a jerky movement.
Spitting food out.
Weighloss sometimes.

It can take up to 5 weeks to get rid of flukes as you have to keep treating to kill the young as they hatch.
Flukes cause bacterial infections so you have to back up with a bacterial med.

What are your water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.

Skin Flukes



Symptoms:

Skin flukes will cause your fish to present with a grayish discoloration of the skin and red, inflamed patches. Fin deterioration or fraying may also be present. Infected fish are often seen scraping against objects in the aquarium.



Cause:

Monogenetic Fluke of the genus Gyrodactylus. These flukes are too small to be seen with the naked eye, ranging in size from 0.05 – 3.0 mm in length. They adhere to the fish’s skin with hooks or suckers and feed on the fish’s flesh. These flukes have a very short life cycle, reproducing roughly every 24 hours. Newly born flukes must find a fish host within the first 24 hours in order to survive. In contrast, adult flukes can survive up to ten days without a host.



Treatment:

Skin Fluke infestations are highly infectious. All fish as well as the aquarium they inhabit should be treated. Effective medications include Clout, Fluke-Tabs, Quick Cure, Formalin, Paragon, Trifon, Parasite Guard, and Potassium Permanganate.









Gill Flukes



Symptoms:

Fish with gill flukes have gills that may appear red and inflamed, bleeding or slimy. Excess mucous or puss may exude from the gills. Sick fish can be observed gasping for air near the surface. This disease is most common in younger fish and fry, who are more susceptible to the parasite.



Cause:

The monogenetic fluke Dactylogyrus, which destroys gill tissue and damages blood vessels in this region.



Treatment:

Treat with Clout, Fluke Tabs, Paraform, Trifon, Paragon, Quick Cure, Formalin, orParasite Guard. Gill flukes are highly contagious, therefore, all fish in the same aquarium should be treated.

 

[tropic_john]

Also, dropping blood worm into the 28gallon won't cycle it. And the amount of ammonia that is created by the decomposing worms would be very uncontrollable and hard to measure. Best to cycle using the add and, test, add test etc... method [with bottled ammonia]

_TJ

 

[si_monsta]

I know for sure from the symptoms Wilder describes that skin flukes are present, I'm not sure if the gill flukes are as well. My stats are fine, nitrates are down now that I'm doing 50% water changes to try to lighten the parasite load. I don't have a PH test at the moment. I have been treating for months with traditional dewormers... it's not working. My biggest questions are- is copper chelate effective as a fluke treatment, and will treating in a new tank or removing substrate and ornaments in the original tank be more effective? THANKS AGAIN!

 

[WILDER]

I would try and get one of the meds listed.
Clout meant to be a good med.

Get you some more info.

Scroll down to flukes.
http/www.swedesdock.com/pondpara.sht

 

[si_monsta]

I do not know where to get potassium permanganate and I am hesitant to add formalin or organophosphate pesticides like clout (which is not for sale in California) for toxicity reasons. Although, General Cure does have trichlorofon in it, and I have used it already w/out success. Is it a health risk to handle aquarium water with these compounds in it? If I absolutely must use a strong organophosphate, which brand should I order?

This is why I am so keen to know if copper could be an effective treatment in this situation... coppersafe claims to treat flukes, has anyone tried this? To what degree will a sanitized environment like a new or empty tank make the treatment more effective? I am ready to take drastic measures... I cannot medicate these fish for the rest of their lives. I am also concerned that the fact I feed frozen bloodworms to the eel is aiding the parasite cycle.

If you (anybody) have successfully gotten rid of flukes in yr tank before PLEASE tell me what medication you used. At this point I am desperate.

 

[si_monsta]

bump

copper-safe or organophosphates fo external parasites (flukes)?? I can get coppersafe, Kordon Trifon, Paragon, Jungle Parasite Clear, Fluke Tabs or Anti-Fluke life bearer? I need a treatment to wipe this problem out for good. Please advise.

 

[WILDER]

I would try and get fluke tabs.

As for the copper not sure. Ask in tropcial discussion, Not all fish tolerate it to well.